Seniority dispute ends at US Airways

[LearLove]

"But having said that I can tell you that AWA was much more healthy. We did have airframes on order. We were upgrading and hiring from the street."

So did Braniff at the end.

 

[xanderman]

So did Braniff at the end.

I'm sorry, what did you say your particular state was at the time?

 

[St. Nic]

I'm sorry, what did you say your particular state was at the time?

Stable with a bunch of valuable slot- controlled routes. The "cash crunch" was an illusion by management.

 

[TWA Dude]

Drop it because it's true?? I didn't say they were "over the limit." but the statement is true, the west is doing a signifigant amount of "east" flying.

Since the merger the East has acquired E190, A330 and B757 equipment. Why don't you mention that? Because just like the the formerly East routes we're flying it's irrelevant to anything. Only Easties and their apologists seem to think there's any significance to bringing it up.

 

[xanderman]

Stable with a bunch of valuable slot- controlled routes. The "cash crunch" was an illusion by management.

BWAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

Illusion by management...? Let me guess. The evil mastermind who controlled US Air thought it would be an ingenious plan to fake the demise of your once proud collage of airlines just so they could hook up with the likes of AWA thereby completing their "art" project.

Whatever you say...

Hey! I do love the use of the word "stable" though. Very um...deceitful...yeah that's it! Deceitful!

 

[eaglesview]

From the outside looking in? Maybe feigning ignorance. Or maybe you are that slow...I don't know. But having said that I can tell you that AWA was much more healthy. We did have airframes on order. We were upgrading and hiring from the street. What changed? Why is the west in decline? Simple really. Cost structure. AWA enjoyed a 7-8 cent CASM. The east has yet to achieve a CASM lower than 12 cents in the last 2 decades. So what happens to an airplane on a route that realized modest profits under 7-8 cent CASM that now bears the burden of a 12-14 cent CASM? I know I don't have to tell you that it gets removed from that route and put somewhere where it will make some profit. Smart business on behalf of the company but tough for employees. Why? We can clearly see that with the burden of their cost structure it will kill the west. So unfortunately the west will go the way of PSA (IMO). That is the reality. That is what we in the west fear! So tell me why after the life ring was tossed to our drowning victim they should pull us over board to use us for a flotation device? I choose the way of Nicolau. He knew the east would benefit to a much greater degree than the west and he crafted his SLI appropriately. Parker is no genious and therefore will not be able to devise a plan to counter the high CASM in the east. The simple and logical plan is to shrink and focus efforts out east where there can be some modest gains realized. Sorry but there is not a damn thing any east pilot can tell me that will convince me that their C&R's are fair. Especially in the context of my response!

The increased costs are not surprising. I know you do not believe that operating out of places like PHL BOS DCA LGA ect would be as cheap as PHX. Obviously it is not thre crew costs as they are remeinded daily that they could have had a contract by now had they "played nice." Maybe, just maybe, it is indeed the route structure they operate under. On the bright side obviously there is more business travel out of these places than there will ever be in PHX. Had you merged with any of the legacy carriers your cost would have gone up.

 

[xanderman]

The increased costs are not surprising. I know you do not believe that operating out of places like PHL BOS DCA LGA ect would be as cheap as PHX. Obviously it is not thre crew costs as they are remeinded daily that they could have had a contract by now had they "played nice." Maybe, just maybe, it is indeed the route structure they operate under. On the bright side obviously there is more business travel out of these places than there will ever be in PHX. Had you merged with any of the legacy carriers your cost would have gone up.

I totally agree! No matter who AWA merged with our costs would have gone up. My point is that with the east and their cost structure it makes most sense to operate as much as possible out east because of the point you made. More business fares and better pricing power in general. So with the downsizing of the west, and even the possible elimination of the west operation, how can any east pilots look us in the face and tell us the C&R's are fair and equitable? They can't! And this is precisely why the AWA pilots will not accept anything but the Nic. It was bourn out of a neutral process that employed an independent unbiased third party. If the east doesn't like the outcome, sorry. Cry to G. Nicolau. Get him to change it.

BTW, did you know that Nicolau is the arbiter THEY chose?

 

[eaglesview]

I totally agree! No matter who AWA merged with our costs would have gone up. My point is that with the east and their cost structure it makes most sense to operate as much as possible out east because of the point you made. More business fares and better pricing power in general. So with the downsizing of the west, and even the possible elimination of the west operation, how can any east pilots look us in the face and tell us the C&R's are fair and equitable? They can't! And this is precisely why the AWA pilots will not accept anything but the Nic. It was bourn out of a neutral process that employed an independent unbiased third party. If the east doesn't like the outcome, sorry. Cry to G. Nicolau. Get him to change it.

BTW, did you know that Nicolau is the arbiter THEY chose?

You have good points. Protections for the West have to be built in besides just PHX. But as long as the East sticks with the "gold Standard" and the West sticks with "NIC or bust" nothing will get accomplished. As I have said before there must be middle ground. The East pilots, especially the F/O's will make more money by sticking with the current contract and taking the upgrades they will see because the top half, if not more, of the seniority list is so old . Which raises the question. Why not just put up a short fence. The retirements on the east side will make this whole thing mute.

Way to much testastarone (spelling??) on both sides.

 

[MCDU]

The West protections come with DOH. That means that when your time comes you can go where you want. That includes East bases. So even if they close PHX, with the very old East pilot pilot group, there will be plenty of vacancies and movement when time comes. Trying to defend why a 2005 hire should be able to fill those East positions ahead of 1988 DOH is a non starter and will not happen. It is amazing how shortsighted some are. Pilots are their own worst enemy. No other employee groups have these issues.

M

 

[MCDU]

Since the merger the East has acquired E190, A330 and B757 equipment. Why don't you mention that? Because just like the the formerly East routes we're flying it's irrelevant to anything. Only Easties and their apologists seem to think there's any significance to bringing it up.

I guess you do not mention that these are replacement aircraft. The company has shrunk to min fleet count during this time. Let's talk growth when the East is back to 415 planes ok. And by the way, USAIR operated the E170 prior to the E190. Same type, same training. So the E 190's were nothing new. Kind of like having your 319 replaced by 320's.

M