Seniority and DOH for CAL EQUIPMENT SYSTEM BID

[EWR_FO]

CAL EWR 737:

So if the snapshot shows an FO missing 756 captain in Newark by lets say 10 spots, and you see that there are 11 Newark 756 captains currently ULA etc, then theoretically this FO will likely be awarded the bottom 756 captain slot in Newark? (all things being equal).

Densoo,

I think he will miss it by ten spots because they "double award" a seat when they come to a mgt pilot, ula, etc. If those ten spots include one of these guys then he will miss it by ten minus the number of mgt, etc. Clear as mud?

 

[densoo]

Densoo,

I think he will miss it by ten spots because they "double award" a seat when they come to a mgt pilot, ula, etc. If those ten spots include one of these guys then he will miss it by ten minus the number of mgt, etc. Clear as mud?

Let me try this tack. Let's say this Newark 756 FO is short CA by 10 spots on the snapshot. After all the double bidding and ULAs are taken into account (and cancel each other out?) the FO will miss CA by less than 10 spots, or even get awarded CA? but the FO won't miss it by more than 10 spots, that is, move backwards from what the snapshot showed?

 

[Ex737Driver]

I didn't read all of the posts on this thread, so I may have missed it. Did anyone metion secondary vacancies? If there are 10 vacancies on say IAH 756 CA and you are 15 back from the award, you could still end up being awarded IAH 756 CA if enough IAH 756 CA's bid off to other vacancies, i.e., IAH/EWR 777 CA. I think this might answer densoo's question.

 

[densoo]

I didn't read all of the posts on this thread, so I may have missed it. Did anyone metion secondary vacancies? If there are 10 vacancies on say IAH 756 CA and you are 15 back from the award, you could still end up being awarded IAH 756 CA if enough IAH 756 CA's bid off to other vacancies, i.e., IAH/EWR 777 CA. I think this might answer densoo's question.

I would think secondary vacancies would be accounted for in the snapshot as I believe it looks at not only expansion vacancies but also the bidding that folks are doing on this system bid.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

CAL EWR 737:

So if the snapshot shows an FO missing 756 captain in Newark by lets say 10 spots, and you see that there are 11 Newark 756 captains currently ULA etc, then theoretically this FO will likely be awarded the bottom 756 captain slot in Newark? (all things being equal).

No.

The snap shot is what the bid system bid looks at the time taken. Nothing more nothing less. System bids double award ULA etc., monthly staffing doesn't.

Your mixing up the two. If the snap shot says you can hold it you can if it doesn't you don't as the snap shot shows all awards and includes secondary vacancies if any. Be careful it is next to impossible to interpolate the graphs that close if you looking to pin point something within ten numbers.

The list of the most junior seniority number in his sub base is just that and no one junior to that can hold the position at the time of the snap shot.

That number can change up or down as people change bids or some haven't bid as of the time when snap shot was taken.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I would think secondary vacancies would be accounted for in the snapshot as I believe it looks at not only expansion vacancies but also the bidding that folks are doing on this system bid.

Exactly this is getting way to complicated. All the snap shot is showing is what would the bid look like if it closed and was awarded today. Nothing more nothing less it is the results of the bid and everything has been accounted for (double bidders etc).

The only changes from the snap shot to the actual bid award are from individual pilots changing their preferences on the system bid screen. If no one changed their bid between the snap shot and the award they would be identical.

The only point I was trying to make with double bidders not being included on monthly staffing vs system bids is to point out when comparing where you are today (monthly staffing) Vs where you will be on the effective date (system bid award) is to make sure understand to get an accurate picture of your real starting point. So take current monthly staffing number (starting point) and subtract those not actually flying (ULA, LOA's etc) from today's monthly staffing when comparing where you will be on system award.

Example currently staffed as number 200 NYC 737 FO. System bid award (or snapshot) shows you at 50% (for my example lets say 50% is number 100) or number 100. So you are going to move from 200 now to 100 next year after everyone above you is trained into new positions, retired or whatever. You really aren't moving up 100 numbers you may be moving up only 75 numbers if today on the monthly staffing you have 25 pilots on sick leave or whatever makes them unable to fly. So in reality today you are effectively bidding 175 and not 200. Understand?

 

[CAL EWR B737]

It's late and I'm tired does the explanation above make sense?

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

It's late and I'm tired does the explanation above make sense?

None of it makes much sense to me as an outsider. Sounds like you need more pilots! Where do I sign up?

 

[densoo]

It's late and I'm tired does the explanation above make sense?

yup, thanks.

 

[EWR_FO]

yup, thanks.

Densoo,

If you just miss it by a few numbers there is a pretty good chance you will make it in the next year via adjustment bid. They can actually do one of these any month they want and with the amount of guys watching the GATT rate, ready to pull the plug if their financial planner says to, there could be some guys leaving suddenly. I think you need to be gone by November 1st to lock in the current GATT rate, but I'm not positive.

I know for a fact there is a fairly big list of guys ready to go if a certain someone says it's time. Incidentally, the company also knows this and they are not very happy with this certain someone.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Densoo,


I know for a fact there is a fairly big list of guys ready to go if a certain someone says it's time. Incidentally, the company also knows this and they are not very happy with this certain someone.

So who is this certain someone?

 

[densoo]

Densoo,

If you just miss it by a few numbers there is a pretty good chance you will make it in the next year via adjustment bid. They can actually do one of these any month they want and with the amount of guys watching the GATT rate, ready to pull the plug if their financial planner says to, there could be some guys leaving suddenly. I think you need to be gone by November 1st to lock in the current GATT rate, but I'm not positive.

I know for a fact there is a fairly big list of guys ready to go if a certain someone says it's time. Incidentally, the company also knows this and they are not very happy with this certain someone.

You think the next bid will include 787 base?

or non-retiring pilots due to age 65 rule going into effect no later than Jan 09?

 

[flatspin7]

You think the next bid will include 787 base?

or non-retiring pilots due to age 65 rule going into effect no later than Jan 09?

From what I understand there will be no 787 base at CAL... aparently the FAA has bitten off on a common type rating with the 777. (Im not sure how)

 

[thor2j]

From what I understand there will be no 787 base at CAL... aparently the FAA has bitten off on a common type rating with the 777. (Im not sure how)

Once again rumor, but I talked to someone at Boeing and they said "no way in Hell" are they going to let it be a common type. Way to much work for them with no incentive. He said the planeis sold out for 10 years, why trouble ourselves with that. The 767 was common typed to help with sale (especially the -400).

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Rumor or whatever you want to call it but that is exactly what Dave Lynn VP of Flight Standards and Training told me personally a few months ago.

 

[densoo]

Rumor or whatever you want to call it but that is exactly what Dave Lynn VP of Flight Standards and Training told me personally a few months ago.

Exactly which?

Common type? or "no way in hell"?

 

[CAL EWR B737]

When I went through 756 training in May I talked with Dave for a good half hour. He stated then that the 787/777 would be one sub base. Maybe it has changed since that time but that is what he said and it wasn't a rumor I heard it first hand.

 

[BID]

Did you say sub base? Like LAX sub base! Don't be messin with my dream man.

 

[zonker]

Rumor or whatever you want to call it but that is exactly what Dave Lynn VP of Flight Standards and Training told me personally a few months ago.

Yea well Dave Lynn told our requal class last year that we "probably wouldn't get type-rated" in the 757/767 because we were first officers. I thought that was an odd comment from the Director of Training. Especially since 1) it was totally false 2) he should know better and 3) every one else in the room immediately knew he had no idea what he was talking about since obviously everyone in the right seat has to be IRO qualified.

So I'd take whatever Dave Lynn says with 2 grains of salt.

 

[ToThePain]

From what I understand there will be no 787 base at CAL... aparently the FAA has bitten off on a common type rating with the 777. (Im not sure how)

If you make the 737(300) the same type as the 737(900) then you can make anything a common type.

 

[jtm2222]

I know where the bid notification link is on our website. I can find the vacancy chart but not the snapshot graph I'm used to seeing. Am I missing the graph somewhere?

 

[thor2j]

If you make the 737(300) the same type as the 737(900) then you can make anything a common type.

The 737-3 and the 737-9 are much more similar then the 757-2 and the 767-4, much!

Atleast with these planes the systems work somewhat the same. The 787 does not use bleed air for a/c or anything it has electric pumps and pfm and stuff. Nothing alike.

 

[sleeves]

Rumor or whatever you want to call it but that is exactly what Dave Lynn VP of Flight Standards and Training told me personally a few months ago.

I heard the same thing. What I also heard is that they do not need to teach systems on the 787. That the plane is just pfm. You run the checklist.

 

[SuperFLUF]

Boeing has been claiming since the rollout of the 78 that a 5 day transition course is all that is required for the 777 guys to get typed and fly the 787 as a common fleet.

The 757 & 767 are not a common type rating. Look at anyone's certificate who has these. They are individual type ratings that can be trained and flown as one.
ie: if you were only trained on one type 757 or 767 your certificate will only have the type for the aircraft you were trained on. Since CAL trains on both at the same time you get two types for the price of one.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Ok here is what probably will happen. CAL will buy off the FAA like they do on everything else, the 5 day transition will be a four hour CBT and 1 Sim ride. If what you say is correct they will still force all 777 to be quailifed over a year or so. All new bidders will receive differences training and will be dual qualified.

Look I want two sub bases because it is safer and will yeild more pilots. I just know how cal operates.

FYI I am new to the B756. CAL 737 to 756 boeing to boeing training was a joke. Easy but I didn't learn anything. They cut it down to bare minimum training and tell you on most things you don't need to know that. We didn't even do any flap or system abnormals until the last sim before the MV.

Today after flying all night with no IRO as we are the only carier to DH east bound we extended the flaps to 1 Slat disagree light. It was like starting from day one. Did the procedure and worked out all right but totally unacceptable as we are given the absolute minimum training. I fear we are going to bend metal and kill people because are company is to cheap and the FAA buys off on everying totally UNACCEPTABLE!

 

[zonker]

Ok here is what probably will happen. CAL will buy off the FAA like they do on everything else, the 5 day transition will be a four hour CBT and 1 Sim ride. If what you say is correct they will still force all 777 to be quailifed over a year or so. All new bidders will receive differences training and will be dual qualified.

Look I want two sub bases because it is safer and will yeild more pilots. I just know how cal operates.

FYI I am new to the B756. CAL 737 to 756 boeing to boeing training was a joke. Easy but I didn't learn anything. They cut it down to bare minimum training and tell you on most things you don't need to know that. We didn't even do any flap or system abnormals until the last sim before the MV.

Today after flying all night with no IRO as we are the only carier to DH east bound we extended the flaps to 1 Slat disagree light. It was like starting from day one. Did the procedure and worked out all right but totally unacceptable as we are given the absolute minimum training. I fear we are going to bend metal and kill people because are company is to cheap and the FAA buys off on everying totally UNACCEPTABLE!

I'm sure you told the IRO to come up front and sent the letter saying how valuable he was but I'm just checking.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I'm sure you told the IRO to come up front and sent the letter saying how valuable he was but I'm just checking.

Will be included in ASAP report.

 

[hagen]

nevermind...

 

[igneousy2]

Reg-wise, the airplane does not have to have a common type for you to have a single=base. It just means that you will have to maintain two sets of currency. I can see an airline going through the trouble for the initial cadre of pilots - but I can't see it as a long term plan.

Later