Screws are put to Mesaba AGAIN

[Mesabi Miner]

Hey all,

Let's make our melodrama into a "mellow drama." Let's face it. It's unlikely any of us will starve no matter what happens. Will we be living the QOL that we want? Absolutely not. But, let's all just chill out.

MM

 

[sf3boy]

Did you read NuGuys post?

Did you? His last sentence said something that NW will come to the same conclusion that Airtran did and do all the flying themselves. That's fine. My point is that they are going to need some real good luck flying Airbuses and DC-9's to CWA, ELM, LFT, AEX, BRD, etc. Maybe they will just have to trim out some city pairs to be like AirTran. This is where there furloughs come, even if XJ and 9E dissappear for good.

 

[JT8D]

Did you? His last sentence said something that NW will come to the same conclusion that Airtran did and do all the flying themselves. That's fine. My point is that they are going to need some real good luck flying Airbuses and DC-9's to CWA, ELM, LFT, AEX, BRD, etc. Maybe they will just have to trim out some city pairs to be like AirTran. This is where there furloughs come, even if XJ and 9E dissappear for good.

I think he meant Airtran as in mainline will do ALL of the flying including the RJ's.

I realize that is tuff for you to comprehend but believe it or not that is an option being discussed at this very moment at mainline.

Let me spell it out for you. A proposal to take your airplanes and fly them at mainline by mainline pilots. Is that clear enough?

 

[dondk]

Let me spell it out for you. A proposal to take your airplanes and fly them at mainline by mainline pilots. Is that clear enough?

Crystal clear... Did not think NWA pilots would sell out for $60 bucks a hour. The days of regionals will gone and the days of majors will be gone to. If a mainline guy is willing to fly a 50 seat for $60/hour. That is lowering the bar...

 

[JT8D]

Crystal clear... Did not think NWA pilots would sell out for $60 bucks a hour. The days of regionals will gone and the days of majors will be gone to. If a mainline guy is willing to fly a 50 seat for $60/hour. That is lowering the bar...

I hear ya, the "rationale" is that the mainline guys who would fly the RJ's at regional pay would be furloughed anyway without this plan so some pay is better than no pay. And as NuGuy stated with this plan mainline protects jobs and lives to "fight another day" to raise pay when the airline becomes profitable.

 

[sf3boy]

Perfectly clear. And, I know this may come as a shock to you, I understand why. I even support it. It's too bad that ALPA let this happen years ago.


That being said, I'll believe it when I see it. The 747 and 10 guys don't care one bit about some 320 or 9 FO. I would be pleasantly surprised to see ALPA take a stance for the betterment of the group as opposed to the betterment of one's self. They have never taken that road before so these are fascinating times we are living in. But good luck to all the NW pilots on taking back all our/your airplanes from Mesaba. The Saabs are great in the summer in MEM. Enjoy that $52/hour captain rate.

 

[PoorJetDriver]

As an observer of the US Airways bankruptcies during my career at PSA I can tell any and all assumptions about who flies where and is serviced by whomever needs to be thrown out the window. For example, nearly all US Airways stations have had ground operations outsourced and that is only the beginning. The paycuts the CSA's have taken are enormous. Many things are changing at NWA and I wish you all the best.

 

[FOrever85]

I guess NUguy hasn't been paying attention to what has been going on at his own airline.

One word for you,


Outsourcing!

I you haven't been paying attention it's managements favorite word. Just like your mechanics and soon to be flight attendants, they will be doing their best to outsource your job too.

Oh, but I am sure pilots are different and they will let you guys take more flying.

Keep dreaming!

It would be better for you to go back and look at your last concessionary agreement to see what is in store for you and the regionals. More paycuts, more furloughs, more regionals. After all that's what you guys signed.

Unfortunatly you are trying to use logic. It doesn't apply to airline management.

 

[westbound]

JT8D and NUGUY

You both actually think mainline would want to protect your jobs by securing all 50+ seat flying. Why would they care about your job. Mainline didn't care about protecting the mechanics jobs nor will they care about your FA's jobs. So, tell me why they would care about your flying job. Face it, your company DOES NOT care about their own employees and that is the sad truth. They will do anything to outsource your jobs even at the pilot level.

 

[JT8D]

JT8D and NUGUY

You both actually think mainline would want to protect your jobs by securing all 50+ seat flying. Why would they care about your job. Mainline didn't care about protecting the mechanics jobs nor will they care about your FA's jobs. So, tell me why they would care about your flying job. Face it, your company DOES NOT care about their own employees and that is the sad truth. They will do anything to outsource your jobs even at the pilot level.

I wasn't referring to "the company" (management) securing the pilot jobs. I was referring to NW ALPA considering "biting the bullet" (with regard to pay and work rules) and securing 50 seat and up flying by making mainline flying these aircraft the most cost effective choice for "the company" (management). Hence the preservation of mainline flying jobs albeit at far lower pay rates, but "living to fight another day" (to get work rules and pay back) when the airline becomes profitable.

Although I cannot speak for NuGuy, I am certain he was referring to NW ALPA as well, not management.

Definite comprehension issues on this thread.

 

[NuGuy]

Definite comprehension issues on this thread.

Man, no kidding.

We just got the word from the negotiating commitee that scope is the #1 issue. NWA has it's demands, but the NWA MEC is sticking to its guns to retain flying above 60 seats. Anything less than capturing that flying, on one certificate, with one pilot group, will result in a "major confrontation" with the pilots.

Put simply, in deference to many here, this is a strike issue.

Nu

 

[Jimdandy]

Nuguy Jt8,

Your falling into mgmts trap nicely. You will bid for the flying at some terrible low rate. Then mgmt will take that low rate to a outsourcer and ask can you beat this. And of course they can you are only succeeding at screwing the profession more. No way will NWA put you in 50 seaters. No way. I wish they would set a precedence by giving you all regional flying - but giving you all the levarage in the next pilot negotiations would be crazy. The only way to control a union is massive amonts of out sourcing. All Bankruptcys have involved MASSIVE AMOUNTS of outsourcing.

If we do not learn from the mistakes made in the past we will be condemned to repeat them. Wise up Nuguy and Jt8 you are digging your own graves.

 

[sf3boy]

NuGuy

That is great news. I really hope that your union leaders do stick to this plan. I have always believed that big airplanes at commuters is bad for all. However, a strike is what they want (mgt). They got it with the mechanics by the laying off over half proposal and the FA's and rampers are next. Unfotrunately, they will go after the pilots too.

 

[NuGuy]

However, a strike is what they want (mgt). They got it with the mechanics by the laying off over half proposal and the FA's and rampers are next. Unfotrunately, they will go after the pilots too.

Thats fine. Sentiment from the pilot group is "bring your best game".

Are they going to run an airline with 500 hour Uber wonders from Gulfstream? Nope, a pilot's strike is liquidation.

Giving in to what management wants is to shrink to a 2500-3000 pilot group, which is ripe for picking off at the next stop down the road. Today's stop is the DC-9. Tomorrow's is the 319/320. The MEC sees this.

Funny that the America West/USAir merger had a fair bit of insourcing. I mean, I don't see any 100 seaters at either right now, but they seemed to get that flying.

Jimmy boy, we don't want your 50 seaters. Those you are your jobs, for better or worse. It's time for the next battle, and to draw the line. Besides, don't you read Boyd? It's day is done.

Nu

 

[schmitty340]

Nuguy says "Funny that the America West/USAir merger had a fair bit of insourcing. I mean, I don't see any 100 seaters at either right now, but they seemed to get that flying."


maybe he didn't get the memo....lets see, mesa flys 90 seaters for america west and us air added lots of 70 seaters to its feeders....

good luck fellas!

schmitty