Screws are put to Mesaba AGAIN

[LivinDaDream]

While much of what NuGuy says has some validity, one statement that he makes as a point-of-fact, needs clarification.

The only reason that the 4 leased DC-9's are listed is because they are leased. You don't list assets that are paid off on that portion of the filing. The items (in this case aircraft) on the list are those that they choose not to "affirm".

This simply means that they intend to renegotiate the terms of those items or completely nullify any agreements with regards to those items. There is absolutely nothing in the filing that would indicate that they plan on keeping a single DC-9. Any aircraft that they own are on the chopping block, but do not have to be listed on the filing as there are no terms for a BK Judge or Creditors Committee to make determinations on.

Not knockin' most of what you said, but you misstated that as fact and I thought it should be pointed out.

All of us on this board are simply voicing our own opinions and conjecture and not one of us truly knows the outcome. However, one thing is certain; if all 3 of the redtail carriers don't stick together, we will all lose more in the end.

 

[flyby]

Beacon - ON

The simple truth is this: NWA guys see all the regional airport flying as beneath them but it is, nonetheless, REQUIRED for NWA revenue. We are dependent on EACH OTHER. One cannot exist independently from the other. Until that is realized by ALL Red-tail flyers, we will only continue to play into Mgmt's hands.

This guy has it right. Substitute your airline for NWA if you wish but the picture is the same. All the animosity that flows between the mainline and regional pilot groups is senseless. It is a tragic waste of time and serves only to weaken this profession by dividing us even more.

 

[dondk]

NuGuy has some really good arguments/points.

Except... some markets just will not support a DC-9. USAirways did that to many secondary and more tertiary markets and see where it landed them.

NWA is not about to give up some markets. Now add the limitations of the NWA pilots, are they going to sign on for monthly lines at 85-95 hours (mid atlantic guys were flying that) to pick up the extra red tail flying? 13 1/2 duty days, and 20 minute turns?

Are NWA rampers going to work in these tertiary markets for $7 bucks an hour?

Unfortunately the express red tails are going to stay, especially for certain markets. Maybe some city frequencies will be eliminated for the express but many will stay. It is still cheaper to run a full Avro or CRJ than a 1/2 empty DC-9 or baby bus at the same ticket prices.

The best option NWA pilots have is to capture the "new" flying with small jet's. That new flying though I feel would be replacement flying for what the DC-9 loses. No "real" growth, just a transition from mainline to B or C scale but still above regional scale.

 

[Waylon]

NWA does have plans for regionals. Stations like DSM already have been told by there union reps that 20 NWA stations are going to be airlink stations. So argue all you want if xj/9e is going to be around my bet is they will. I am sure the 500 million that xj made for NWA was just smoke and mirrors.

 

[dondk]

I thought if "jet service" was to a NWA station then it had to stay a NWA station.

JAN and HPN are perfect examples, they have nothing but Airlinks for most of the year and a occassional -9 here and there for a month or two once a day.

 

[sf3boy]

Although I don't wish for the loss of jobs at XJ/9E, I'm afraid NuGuy has hit the nail squarely on the head on all points.

So, NWA will only fly to cities that will support a Airbus 3-4 times daily so they can be like AirTran and do all their flying themselves? Is that the point that he squarely hit? Say hello to massive furloughs at NWA if that is the case.

 

[scabseeker]

I thought if "jet service" was to a NWA station then it had to stay a NWA station.

That was probably true back in the good old days before bankruptcy. I'm sure now that out the window just like the pilot's scope clause.

 

[JT8D]

So, NWA will only fly to cities that will support a Airbus 3-4 times daily so they can be like AirTran and do all their flying themselves? Is that the point that he squarely hit? Say hello to massive furloughs at NWA if that is the case.

Did you read NuGuys post?

NW ALPA knows that scope is probably history so there is talk of securing ALL of the flying (50 seats and up) to mainline at regional type pay for mainline pilots that are on 100 seat AC or less. It is either that or the mainline pilots who would fly the RJ aircraft will be furloughed. Not a tuff decision to make, no?

 

[BoDEAN]

What an Idiot.

Is that why over the last year, Mesaba was one of few regionals turning a profit? Hmm. Wall Street Journal reader you are not =P

 

[profit]

What an Idiot.

I couldn't agree more. NU GUY is an IDIOT. Drink some more coolaid dude.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Hey all,

Let's make our melodrama into a "mellow drama." Let's face it. It's unlikely any of us will starve no matter what happens. Will we be living the QOL that we want? Absolutely not. But, let's all just chill out.

MM

 

[sf3boy]

Did you read NuGuys post?

Did you? His last sentence said something that NW will come to the same conclusion that Airtran did and do all the flying themselves. That's fine. My point is that they are going to need some real good luck flying Airbuses and DC-9's to CWA, ELM, LFT, AEX, BRD, etc. Maybe they will just have to trim out some city pairs to be like AirTran. This is where there furloughs come, even if XJ and 9E dissappear for good.

 

[JT8D]

Did you? His last sentence said something that NW will come to the same conclusion that Airtran did and do all the flying themselves. That's fine. My point is that they are going to need some real good luck flying Airbuses and DC-9's to CWA, ELM, LFT, AEX, BRD, etc. Maybe they will just have to trim out some city pairs to be like AirTran. This is where there furloughs come, even if XJ and 9E dissappear for good.

I think he meant Airtran as in mainline will do ALL of the flying including the RJ's.

I realize that is tuff for you to comprehend but believe it or not that is an option being discussed at this very moment at mainline.

Let me spell it out for you. A proposal to take your airplanes and fly them at mainline by mainline pilots. Is that clear enough?

 

[dondk]

Let me spell it out for you. A proposal to take your airplanes and fly them at mainline by mainline pilots. Is that clear enough?

Crystal clear... Did not think NWA pilots would sell out for $60 bucks a hour. The days of regionals will gone and the days of majors will be gone to. If a mainline guy is willing to fly a 50 seat for $60/hour. That is lowering the bar...

 

[JT8D]

Crystal clear... Did not think NWA pilots would sell out for $60 bucks a hour. The days of regionals will gone and the days of majors will be gone to. If a mainline guy is willing to fly a 50 seat for $60/hour. That is lowering the bar...

I hear ya, the "rationale" is that the mainline guys who would fly the RJ's at regional pay would be furloughed anyway without this plan so some pay is better than no pay. And as NuGuy stated with this plan mainline protects jobs and lives to "fight another day" to raise pay when the airline becomes profitable.

 

[sf3boy]

Perfectly clear. And, I know this may come as a shock to you, I understand why. I even support it. It's too bad that ALPA let this happen years ago.


That being said, I'll believe it when I see it. The 747 and 10 guys don't care one bit about some 320 or 9 FO. I would be pleasantly surprised to see ALPA take a stance for the betterment of the group as opposed to the betterment of one's self. They have never taken that road before so these are fascinating times we are living in. But good luck to all the NW pilots on taking back all our/your airplanes from Mesaba. The Saabs are great in the summer in MEM. Enjoy that $52/hour captain rate.

 

[PoorJetDriver]

As an observer of the US Airways bankruptcies during my career at PSA I can tell any and all assumptions about who flies where and is serviced by whomever needs to be thrown out the window. For example, nearly all US Airways stations have had ground operations outsourced and that is only the beginning. The paycuts the CSA's have taken are enormous. Many things are changing at NWA and I wish you all the best.

 

[FOrever85]

I guess NUguy hasn't been paying attention to what has been going on at his own airline.

One word for you,


Outsourcing!

I you haven't been paying attention it's managements favorite word. Just like your mechanics and soon to be flight attendants, they will be doing their best to outsource your job too.

Oh, but I am sure pilots are different and they will let you guys take more flying.

Keep dreaming!

It would be better for you to go back and look at your last concessionary agreement to see what is in store for you and the regionals. More paycuts, more furloughs, more regionals. After all that's what you guys signed.

Unfortunatly you are trying to use logic. It doesn't apply to airline management.

 

[westbound]

JT8D and NUGUY

You both actually think mainline would want to protect your jobs by securing all 50+ seat flying. Why would they care about your job. Mainline didn't care about protecting the mechanics jobs nor will they care about your FA's jobs. So, tell me why they would care about your flying job. Face it, your company DOES NOT care about their own employees and that is the sad truth. They will do anything to outsource your jobs even at the pilot level.

 

[JT8D]

JT8D and NUGUY

You both actually think mainline would want to protect your jobs by securing all 50+ seat flying. Why would they care about your job. Mainline didn't care about protecting the mechanics jobs nor will they care about your FA's jobs. So, tell me why they would care about your flying job. Face it, your company DOES NOT care about their own employees and that is the sad truth. They will do anything to outsource your jobs even at the pilot level.

I wasn't referring to "the company" (management) securing the pilot jobs. I was referring to NW ALPA considering "biting the bullet" (with regard to pay and work rules) and securing 50 seat and up flying by making mainline flying these aircraft the most cost effective choice for "the company" (management). Hence the preservation of mainline flying jobs albeit at far lower pay rates, but "living to fight another day" (to get work rules and pay back) when the airline becomes profitable.

Although I cannot speak for NuGuy, I am certain he was referring to NW ALPA as well, not management.

Definite comprehension issues on this thread.