Scope, RJ's and unions

[FlyDeltasJets]

[7
Had junior Delta guys supported a staple or integration, many of the furloughs would have come from the bottom of the Regional's lists.

PS, I still think you are out on furlough [/B]

Really? And Leo would have combined the lists why? Just because we supported it?

P.S.

I know Csmith. He is not furloughed. I am, if it makes you feel any better.

 

[Dieterly]

FDJ,

You should have stayed FlaGulf, at least you wouldn't been furloughed...

 

[FlyingSig]

Any person who consistantly quotes Dave Siegal can't have too much credibility.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Really? And Leo would have combined the lists why? Just because we supported it?

(1) It has never been tried (2) ALPA Controls the NMB, look at where former NMB members go to work after their government service. (3) If we stood together, he would have no choice. If Delta management signed off on C2K, they would have signed off on about anything and (4) Numerous reports show that the cost differential would have been minimal.

Delta management loves whipsaw and is in the process of bringing in three more players to beat you guys up with. At Connection we have been living in this World for a while - welcome to our World.

A union's strength is in unity. You need to stop complaining that it would be too difficult to bring pilots together and start demanding it.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

(1) It has never been tried

---------Doesn't answer my question.


(2) ALPA Controls the NMB, look at where former NMB members go to work after their government service.

-----The NMB has nothing to do with our ability to force a list integration.


(3) If we stood together, he would have no choice. If Delta management signed off on C2K, they would have signed off on about anything and

-----A) We probably would not have been allowed to strike (PEB) and B) They certainlyy had the choice to spinn off CMR and ASA.

(4) Numerous reports show that the cost differential would have been minimal.


-----Fins, please. You are an educated man. Are you kidding me!!????Who made this study, Dan Ford?

Delta management loves whipsaw and is in the process of bringing in three more players to beat you guys up with. At Connection we have been living in this World for a while - welcome to our World.

-----Wait a minute, why would he bother whipsawing us if the cost difference between our airlines is, as you say, "minimal?"

A union's strength is in unity. You need to stop complaining that it would be too difficult to bring pilots together and start demanding it.

----- A unions strength also lies in its ability to reason and to explore alternate options when one is unrealistic. Telling me that mgt would do it because our cost difference is "minimal" is not realistic or reasonable.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

FDJ,

You should have stayed FlaGulf, at least you wouldn't been furloughed...

Something tells me that I still might be better off!


Where were ya based?

 

[csmith]

First, The Wall Street Journal reported Delta's break even load factor at 85%. If you think DAL can sustain that kind of load factor and remain profitable, you might want to start studying for your insurance salesman's license.

Do you want to know what our breakeven loadfactor would be if the pilots flew for free? I guess the WSJ wouldn't report that.

There are a bunch of guys who have no sympathy for mainline now.

What a profound statement. Are you saying that you are actively looking to see that I get mine? How grown up of you.

Lastly, I and a bunch of other RJ pilots think what DALPA did to ASA and COMAIR is inexcusable. It sounds like you are so much a better pilot and (airline economist) than the regional guys. Your condescending tone brings back memories.

More of the martyr syndrome. How do you generate a "tone" from a typed post? I have addressed this several times and will not get dragged into it again. It sounds to me as if you are unsure of your abilities and logic, and therefore must resort to flaming.

If you want me to be furloughed, fine. I'm happy you would find it so appealing if I really were. What does it matter whether or not I am furloughed? Would it make my logic any less valid? I'll make sure to send the checks back on the 15th and 30th, because Delta doesn't realize it yet. I guess you and I are done here until you can grow up a bit.

 

[csmith]

Re: Re: Re: Instead of

I think you will see a proposal to create yet another subsidiary, but I'm haveing trouble understanding why you don't see that as a concession.

As I see it, it will fall between the current subsidiaries and the mainline and fly the new 100-seat +- airplane, with different payscales and contractual terms, but the pilots will be on the same list. The non-pilot employees wont be paid or have the same benefits as "Delta" employees, which is a key factor. It could work.

What do you see as so "different" about that than a blending of all the pilot lists currently on the property? What do you see as an improvement between such a system with 3 subsidiaries and 3 "tiers" as opposed to one subsidiary that does it all, while leaving the "mainline" structure intact, but giving the pilots (all of them) access to all of the flying?

No barbs, just your honest opinion.

Well, that will be something to deal with if/when it happens. I don't see our MEC signing off on it--yes they will have to sign off on it. I would hope they learned their lesson in this area.

I will point out that any new airplane on the Delta property will likely have compensation set by an arbitraitor. Thanks to the loss of 3.B.6, our compensation lives will be in his hands. He does have some mandatory direction, however, and I have reasonable confidence in our built-in protections there.

I wouldn't see such a system as an "improvement", and have already instructed my reps as such. What you dont realize is that your solution could have worked out. It is a flow through. Whether you admit it or not, that's what it is. It was talked about, and your reps said to go pound sand, so we did. No windfalls at others expense. I think this thread has worn itself out.

 

[Publishers]

sad

One of the sad facts of this situation is that Delta or any major has to form some de facto company like Express or regionals to respond to major changes in the industry.

It would be nice if the constraints and rules did not create these situations. I am furloughing over here and building over here to satisfy the restrictive rules that have been created over the years trying to protect jobs that in many ways end up not being protected at all.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Re: sad

One of the sad facts of this situation is that Delta or any major has to form some de facto company like Express or regionals to respond to major changes in the industry.

That's the whole point, publisher:

They don't "have" to, they want to.