SCOPE at DELTA

[ACL65PILOT]

FWIW, I saw the FOM revision today. If anyone can get me a PDF copy of it, I would appreciate it. It is yellow colored and is effective April 1. I asked a Shuttle America guy in the terminal if he had the memo, he produced their revision.

 

[higherflyer]

F this, i'm going to law school then buying my own plane. ya'll can come fly it with me, even you joe merchant.

Sweet, I'll even fly it for free and then I'll have the time to get hired at one of those regional airlines and as soon as I have 500 PIC jet, I'll get hired by a major.

 

[MCOE175]

Can't you see what is happening here? The cards are falling into place for RP and DAL.
If Midwest or should I say when, goes under... RP will take over the operation as RP DBA Midex. They now have a code share agreement with DL. The 175 at higher weights will then be moved to this operation and Shuttle America will no logger be part of DCI. Thats how MGT gets around scope! Its to "strange" that boeing made its announcement about planes being removed, Midwest signs code share with DL, and RP is DIP.

WATCH...

 

[FlyingDawg]

Can't you see what is happening here? The cards are falling into place for RP and DAL.
If Midwest or should I say when, goes under... RP will take over the operation as RP DBA Midex. They now have a code share agreement with DL. The 175 at higher weights will then be moved to this operation and Shuttle America will no logger be part of DCI. Thats how MGT gets around scope! Its to "strange" that boeing made its announcement about planes being removed, Midwest signs code share with DL, and RP is DIP.

WATCH...

BINGO

Don't forget the new certificate RP has just gained a 51% stake in Hawaii. Guess what? On April 1 the only A/C flying in those colors will be Shuttle America. DL new connection to all the islands in Hawaii.

Mark my words: A RAH A/C will be flying from the West Coast to these islands in the near future.

 

[General Lee]

BINGO

Don't forget the new certificate RP has just gained a 51% stake in Hawaii. Guess what? On April 1 the only A/C flying in those colors will be Shuttle America. DL new connection to all the islands in Hawaii.

Mark my words: A RAH A/C will be flying from the West Coast to these islands in the near future.

Not for Delta. A code share maybe (we have a code share with Alaska too, and they fly to Hawaii from SEA), but that is about it. You will NOT be flying a plane larger than 76 seats as a Delta Connection. Nope. We gave up 6 seats in BK court to allow a certain number of 70 seaters to become 76 seaters, and that is the ONLY thing that would FORCE us to do it again. We didn't willingly give up extra seats, we were forced to, with a BK judge watching.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cobra17]

We didn't willingly give up extra seats, we were forced to, with a BK judge watching.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, tell us how you were forced to lose your virginity, with your cellmates watching.

Bye Bye--Genital Warts

 

[General Lee]

General, tell us how you were forced to lose your virginity, with your cellmates watching.

Bye Bye--Genital Warts

Your Mom and Sister were willing participants.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cobra17]

Your Mom and Sister were willing participants.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You do know my "sister" used to be my brother, before the operation. Mom too.

 

[PuffDriver]

You do know my "sister" used to be my brother, before the operation. Mom too.

Guess you are soon to follow. It's genetic, you you know.

 

[Fly4hire]

deleted

 

[Fly4hire]

The 175 at higher weights will then be moved to this operation and Shuttle America will no logger be part of DCI. Thats how MGT gets around scope! Its to "strange" that boeing made its announcement about planes being removed, Midwest signs code share with DL, and RP is DIP.

WATCH...

Answer me this - if MEH had kept their operation with 717's would they also not still be getting around Scope? Now they will be code sharing on smaller aircraft. Are there any restrictions on the code-share, as in flights only into or out of MKE?

Not to minimize anything, but MEH was/is a pretty small operation - unless this is a backdoor to do other flying, and expand beyond the MKE flights, I do not see how it is an end run around Scope

 

[mynameisjim]

When I repeated what Compass pilots told me members of the Delta MEC rebutted that Compass pilots were not hired by NWA HR, but an outsourced HR firm staffed by former NWA employees... .

It has to be a contracted firm that hired the NWA pilots to interview Compass, because NWA doesn't let you collect retirement and a paycheck at the same time.

Compass also had a NWA pilot as an instructor, but he had to quit and get hired at a contractor because of his retirement.

 

[FlyingDawg]

Not for Delta. A code share maybe (we have a code share with Alaska too, and they fly to Hawaii from SEA), but that is about it. You will NOT be flying a plane larger than 76 seats as a Delta Connection. Nope. We gave up 6 seats in BK court to allow a certain number of 70 seaters to become 76 seaters, and that is the ONLY thing that would FORCE us to do it again. We didn't willingly give up extra seats, we were forced to, with a BK judge watching.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I wasn't suggesting it was for Delta. RAH has 3 different certificates and I bet another one is/could be added in the near future.

 

[~~~^~~~]

It has to be a contracted firm that hired the NWA pilots to interview Compass, because NWA doesn't let you collect retirement and a paycheck at the same time.

Compass also had a NWA pilot as an instructor, but he had to quit and get hired at a contractor because of his retirement.

That may be the way Delta did it also... makes sense.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Not for Delta. A code share maybe (we have a code share with Alaska too, and they fly to Hawaii from SEA), but that is about it. You will NOT be flying a plane larger than 76 seats as a Delta Connection. ...

Bye Bye--General Lee

General, what everyone is concerned about is Delta running MidWest as a virtual DCI carrier through code share. Passengers don't care about the name on the side of the airplane. They get on the SkWest 35th anniversary jet just like they do a Comair CRJ900.

Sure, it has MidWest code, but sold over Delta's web site no one will notice or care, but us.

Some might even claim as these airplanes fly for MidWest they are no longer RJ's under Section 1 B 40 and backfill their slots with more, large RJ's.

 

[800Dog]

Not for Delta. A code share maybe (we have a code share with Alaska too, and they fly to Hawaii from SEA), but that is about it. You will NOT be flying a plane larger than 76 seats as a Delta Connection. Nope. We gave up 6 seats in BK court to allow a certain number of 70 seaters to become 76 seaters, and that is the ONLY thing that would FORCE us to do it again. We didn't willingly give up extra seats, we were forced to, with a BK judge watching.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Actually, we willingly gave up 6 seats. The majority of Delta pilots voted in favor of a contract that allowed the company 76 seaters. All this after our ALPA reps said the line in the sand was 70. Had we stood our ground, we would be flying these jets. No way the company closes its doors over 6 seats. We are the weakest group in the industry on scope. Sad, but true.

 

[FDJ2]

these jets. No way the company closes its doors over 6 seats. We are the weakest group in the industry on scope. Sad, but true.

The company wouldn't have had to close its doors over 6 seats. The 1113c wasn't about closing the company's doors, it was about rejecting our contract. In all likelihood our contract would have been rejected, as others were, and, like others, we would have been denied the right to strike. What are the scope limits when you don't have a contract?

 

[General Lee]

Actually, we willingly gave up 6 seats. The majority of Delta pilots voted in favor of a contract that allowed the company 76 seaters. All this after our ALPA reps said the line in the sand was 70. Had we stood our ground, we would be flying these jets. No way the company closes its doors over 6 seats. We are the weakest group in the industry on scope. Sad, but true.

We didn't offer that to the company, they came after it with the BK judge in the backround. They were going to get it, and NWA had already gotten the seats to 76 seats (with the Compass deal), so that was the magic number. It was offered in a "package" deal in the end, with the person who was presiding. Hard to turn that down. You know that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[800Dog]

The company wouldn't have had to close its doors over 6 seats. The 1113c wasn't about closing the company's doors, it was about rejecting our contract. In all likelihood our contract would have been rejected, as others were, and, like others, we would have been denied the right to strike. What are the scope limits when you don't have a contract?

And we could have walked! No judge can force you to work. No backbone at the big D.

 

[General Lee]

And we could have walked! No judge can force you to work. No backbone at the big D.

Didn't we lose the case dealing with overtime flying back in 2000? I think we did. They ruled we could not stop the status quo, and that meant flying greenslips, even during Xmas. Looks like they can force things upon us. You can quit though, if you don't like it. Now, we don't have to roll over and give away scope, but in BK and other situations, we will lose more often than we will win. At least the Obama administration is MORE union friendly than the Bush administration....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

And we could have walked! No judge can force you to work. No backbone at the big D.

Then quit. Because that's what you are advocating. Not a strike, but a mass resignation. After everyone quits, then what?

 

[MCOE175]

Dead subject... RP/S5 is delaying weight increase.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That is a good idea. DAL got the message loud and clear.

 

[PuffDriver]

Dead subject... RP/S5 is delaying weight increase.

Not a dead subject if the aircraft have already been certified. Perhaps we need to fire up the training department for EMB175s

 

[Fly4hire]

Not a dead subject if the aircraft have already been certified. Perhaps we need to fire up the training department for EMB175s

Even if they rescind the weight increase, any aircraft already modified are in violation even if they do not fly over 86K. The contract is based on certificated weight. If these aircraft have been modified they must be de-certified or not be flown on a DCI certificate. Period.

 

[PuffDriver]

Even if they rescind the weight increase, any aircraft already modified are in violation even if they do not fly over 86K. The contract is based on certificated weight. If these aircraft have been modified they must be de-certified or not be flown on a DCI certificate. Period.

Or on our certificate--as in Delta's

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Assuming this thing is settled, how much to you want to bet that this thing is swept under the rug as a "communications foul-up"?

Yea, foul-up all right...like someone spilled the beans before they were supposed to, and we found out about it.

Agree with F4H. If one of those modded aircraft flys a DL code, grievance time.

Nu

 

[koepp]

Even though Northwest does not require a bachelor's degree, I do not know any pilots hired in the last hiring wave without one. I do know a few pilots at Compass without one. There are some extremely qualified Compass pilots, but there were also a couple hired with around 700 hours of total flight time. The hiring standards were not the same. The interview process at NWA was also a lot more selective. Compass struggled to fill classes at one point. That being said, I have no problem putting every single Compass pilot on our list, but I want all the Republic 175's also. It is not possible to take on their pilots. I have no problem doing this. A few years ago, Republic took Mid-Atlantic's airplanes without the pilots. We need all 175's at mainline. After that happens, we need to bring the 175 pay rates up to mirror the DC-9's. None of this will ever happen. In a few years, the smallest aircraft left at mainline will be the 757.

If I remember right, the low time Compass pilot had 996 hours; 7 total got hired with less than ATP mins.

 

[mynameisjim]

The weight mod puts a new Weight placard over the pilot jumpseat. Feel free to check if you ride on one. It'll be on your left at eye level behind the captains head.

 

[Fly4hire]

Dead subject... RP/S5 is delaying weight increase.

Delaying, canceling, or delaying "indefinitely"?