Santulli's visit to SC?

[Hogprint]

Any NJI bubbas want to share the gouge of the meeting?

 

[SeaSpray]

Any NJI bubbas want to share the gouge of the meeting?

Looks like they heard something good and were instructed not to talk about it.

 

[zman300]

Looks like they heard something good and were instructed not to talk about it.

You already know too much!
Yes, you likely won't hear much for a while. One thing we can confirm is that lunch was delicious.

 

[h25b]

I'm guessing it was something along the lines of, "don't sweat it, we strung those guys (read: IBT) along for years and it'll be a LONG time (read: forever) before you'll start paying union dues. So just do business as usual and we'll figure out a way to weasel out of the NJI provisions of this TA well before any of you start wearing those goofy union pins... We're just hoping they don't come to their senses and reject this TA because we really feel like we got away with murder... The only downside is Mr. Buffett is pi$$ed that we didn't break the IBT, but we never thought they'd actually accept this B.S."

That had to be about the gist of it, probably lasted about 5 minutes before they all hit the lunch buffet. He probably gave the NJI guys a raise just for spite.

 

[zman300]

I'm guessing it was something along the lines of, "don't sweat it, we strung those guys (read: IBT) along for years and it'll be a LONG time (read: forever) before you'll start paying union dues. So just do business as usual and we'll figure out a way to weasel out of the NJI provisions of this TA well before any of you start wearing those goofy union pins... We're just hoping they don't come to their senses and reject this TA because we really feel like we got away with murder..."

That had to be about the gist of it, probably lasted about 5 minutes before they all hit the lunch buffett. He probably gave the NJI guys a raise just for spite.

Please refer further questions/concerns about this topic to h25b. Looks like he's got it "figgered out!"

Relax fellas; all will be known in due time.

 

[Starman]

Relax fellas; all will be known in due time.

You guys are so used to getting stroked, you can't even read clear english in a pending contract. It's unfortunate that the "best and brightest" from the 89th can't figure this simple stuff out. It really makes me wonder about my tax dollars at work.

Richie Santulli just sold you and your kin down the river. Get ready for a Missoura boatride.

He's petrified that you'll all sign cards before the three years are up. He wants to continue to use you as he sees fit until ASAP prevents him from doing it any longer. He'll say anything or do anything to keep your hope alive. Unfortunately, your only hope is to actually submit union cards to protect your position.

But I know you won't listen. You'll keep prostrating yourselves at the altar of RTS. Like all false gods, they eventually crumble. Where will you be by then?

 

[h25b]

Please refer further questions/concerns about this topic to h25b. Looks like he's got it "figgered out!"

Relax fellas; all will be known in due time.

Gee Whiz, I must have been pretty close to the actual conversation...

I just wander why the IBT "brothers" all of sudden start thinking that the company will start honoring their contracts. They've been telling us for months how the contract gets violated rampently, but now all of a sudden they expect that the company will just go on with life... And on top of everything else they have 3 YEARS to do it. A lot can change in 3 years. If they were going to completely go along with the union's wishes on this one why did they want 3 years to do it ? Last time I checked G-IV school was only about 5 weeks in SAV for those with no Gulfstream experience and it only takes about 1 minute for the NJI guys to fill out their union cards.

And lets not even discuss selling people down any rivers. That to is included in clear english in the pending contract. Good bye to the gateways for newbies and hello to 47K for a 5 yr. Falcon 2000 F.O. Right there in clear english, except it's YOUR OWN MEMBERSHIP... It's O.K. though because PBI is a very affordable area with very low cost of living and I heard the same about TEB and LAX.

The sad part is that if they'd pull their head out of their arse and give up on this seat-grab they could probably have saved at least the gateways. Yet another example of losing the war to win the battle.

 

[zman300]

Starman,

Where did the 89th enter this discussion? Why did you insult its members? Maybe you were trying to insult me because you think I belong(ed) to it? Just a hint: my G-IV experience isn't from the military, and the 89th doesn't fly C-5s or T-1s. So don't ASSume, and leave our servicepeople out of your rants.

h25b,

I don't think anybody's going to screw anybody. Your union reps negotiated a pretty decent contract for you guys. Is it perfect? Of course not, but nothing ever will be. So like I said, just wait, and everything willl be known in time. In the meantime, enjoy your hard-earned gains, and keep working hard. Don't worry about the other side of the house; it likely won't impact you anyway.

 

[h25b]

h25b,

I don't think anybody's going to screw anybody. Your union reps negotiated a pretty decent contract for you guys. Is it perfect? Of course not, but nothing ever will be. So like I said, just wait, and everything willl be known in time. In the meantime, enjoy your hard-earned gains, and keep working hard. Don't worry about the other side of the house; it likely won't impact you anyway.

I'm not a NJA pilot... I'm actually on your side. Didn't you read my posts ? For your information, the IBT IS trying to screw you..

 

[zman300]

But I know you won't listen. You'll keep prostrating yourselves at the altar of RTS. Like all false gods, they eventually crumble. Where will you be by then?

Oh, and the only one I prostrate myself to is God, who has a lot to say about employee AND employer relations. Shall I relate a parable? Or share a couple verses?

 

[zman300]

I'm not a NJA pilot... I'm actually on your side. Didn't you read my posts ? For your information, the IBT IS trying to screw you..

Heh heh! I was wondering why all your negativity about the contract! Guess I ASSumed something too, eh?

Yeah, the IBT is trying to screw us, but I don't think it has as much to do with screwing US as it does the fact that they have to represent their members to the best of their abilities. Might I get screwed in the process? Sure, but their obligation is to their members; I don't like the IBT or any union, but I also don't take their actions as a personal attack. That's just me, though.

 

[Stickshaker]

Gee Whiz, I must have been pretty close to the actual conversation...

I just wander why the IBT "brothers" all of sudden start thinking that the company will start honoring their contracts. They've been telling us for months how the contract gets violated rampently, but now all of a sudden they expect that the company will just go on with life... And on top of everything else they have 3 YEARS to do it. A lot can change in 3 years. If they were going to completely go along with the union's wishes on this one why did they want 3 years to do it ? Last time I checked G-IV school was only about 5 weeks in SAV for those with no Gulfstream experience and it only takes about 1 minute for the NJI guys to fill out their union cards.

And lets not even discuss selling people down any rivers. That to is included in clear english in the pending contract. Good bye to the gateways for newbies and hello to 47K for a 5 yr. Falcon 2000 F.O. Right there in clear english, except it's YOUR OWN MEMBERSHIP... It's O.K. though because PBI is a very affordable area with very low cost of living and I heard the same about TEB and LAX.

The sad part is that if they'd pull their head out of their arse and give up on this seat-grab they could probably have saved at least the gateways. Yet another example of losing the war to win the battle.

h25b,
Just get over it!
Why does 47k for a 5 yr Falcon 2000 F.O matter. I don't think in the life of Netjets there has ever been a 5 yr F.O. that wasn't there by choice. You see, we have something call bidding for upgrade to Captain.
I can't help to just skip over your post because you really don't have a clue on what your talking about. I think your another one of the few guys that are truly unhappy in life. This TA is a 50% pay raise for me, the largest in Fractional history. This makes us the highest paid and least worked. How can you say that this was not a major improvement.
Well maybe your right, I might of been taken.
OH well, I guess I'll just take my 90K + for the 160 day's a year I work and my free medical, and my 401k and fly from home, and oh ya, my 40 Thousand dollar retro check and go cry in the corner. Life is bad. I only wish I had your job. Are they hiring?

 

[FamilyGuy]

You guys are so used to getting stroked, you can't even read clear english in a pending contract. It's unfortunate that the "best and brightest" from the 89th can't figure this simple stuff out. It really makes me wonder about my tax dollars at work.

Richie Santulli just sold you and your kin down the river. Get ready for a Missoura boatride.

He's petrified that you'll all sign cards before the three years are up. He wants to continue to use you as he sees fit until ASAP prevents him from doing it any longer. He'll say anything or do anything to keep your hope alive. Unfortunately, your only hope is to actually submit union cards to protect your position.

But I know you won't listen. You'll keep prostrating yourselves at the altar of RTS. Like all false gods, they eventually crumble. Where will you be by then?

So who do you recommend worshipping? Jimmy Hoffa????

No Thanks.

 

[squonk]

Someone must have hit a nerve or hit close to home! You even managed to get a company mole out of their hole. Nice having you back mole, haven't heard from or seen you and the rest for a few days?

So NJI is on double secret probation now? Wow, who would have known? I wonder if a sale of NJI is now imminent?

 

[squonk]

h25b:

The sad part is that if they'd pull their head out of their arse and give up on this seat-grab they could probably have saved at least the gateways. Yet another example of losing the war to win the battle.

We don't care about gateways. We care about having fly from home. Just like our cousins at NJI enjoy. As far as the "seat grab", well call it what you want it, but that is our scope protection. You are right about this company and honor of the contract. There are still (as far as I know) class action lawsuits that will be settled, because of contract violations. If I were at NJI, I would be very leery of anything coming out of RTS's mouth. As someone said above, he's getting ready to give them a Jersey boat ride.

 

[milehigh6080]

We don't care about gateways. We care about having fly from home.

Right, fly from home is one of the best things the fractional industry has going for it. The problem is, this contract takes a very shortsighted approach to getting it by only guaranteeing it to the current pilots. Keep in mind that after a couple years, there will be lots of new, pissed off pilots wanting to know why the chosen few gets fly from home and the others have to live at five horrible gateways. It arbitrarily creates a group of haves vs. a group of have-nots and it's determined solely by date of hire. Unions always seem to be on sharp lookout for union busting measures, but this is a trojan horse that they're apparently avoiding because of the pay raise. I think NetJets wanted this arrangement because they know that in four years it's going to be a 50/50 split and they won't have to worry about facing a unified pilot group.

I'm glad that you're happy with the TA. Because I live near a gateway, I'll still most likely apply when I meet the mins. But keep this in mind, your TA has a trojan horse in it and it will come to haunt you.

 

[squonk]

Read my other posts Milehigh, I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[zman300]

This is sad. It hasn't even been a week since the TA was reached (with full and enthusiastic union support); it hasn't even been voted on; and already people want MORE.

IF there is a trojan horse in the TA as milehigh suggests, then I think (as I suggested in another thread) maybe it's not so much an issue of NJI employees getting onboard with the union and paying their dues, as much as it is NJA employees getting rid of the union. This'll make the second group, at least in the last two years, that has failed to represent you guys adequately.

I suspect the majority of NJA pilots are happy with the new agreement though, and rightly so. Of course, I could be wrong. If I am, you REALLY should try going without a union; I promise you, employer-employee relations can be GOOD without one.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Looks like they heard something good and were instructed not to talk about it.

For someone who doesn't even work there, COLONEL, you sure have a big mouth. Stop embarrassing yourself.

-Just another "under-qualified," ex-military Netjets Captain.

 

[dime line]

"If I am, you REALLY should try going without a union; I promise you, employer-employee relations can be GOOD without one."


Spoken like a true believer

 

[Sparse]

The problem is, this contract takes a very shortsighted approach to getting it by only guaranteeing it to the current pilots. Keep in mind that after a couple years, there will be lots of new, pissed off pilots wanting to know why the chosen few gets fly from home and the others have to live at five horrible gateways. It arbitrarily creates a group of haves vs. a group of have-nots and it's determined solely by date of hire. .

You are precisely correct. Years ago the ailrine industry tried a similar approach with creating a two tiered (b) pay scale. The industry is still reaping the results of that fiasco. Soon the former "B" scale pilots outnumbered the "A" scalers. Guess what, they took over the union and they never got over being considered second class citizens. Allowing this to infiltrate their contract will backfire on the "A" domicilers, sooner rather than later.

 

[G4dude]

This is sad. It hasn't even been a week since the TA was reached (with full and enthusiastic union support); it hasn't even been voted on; and already people want MORE.

IF there is a trojan horse in the TA as milehigh suggests, then I think (as I suggested in another thread) maybe it's not so much an issue of NJI employees getting onboard with the union and paying their dues, as much as it is NJA employees getting rid of the union. This'll make the second group, at least in the last two years, that has failed to represent you guys adequately.

I suspect the majority of NJA pilots are happy with the new agreement though, and rightly so. Of course, I could be wrong. If I am, you REALLY should try going without a union; I promise you, employer-employee relations can be GOOD without one.

A perfect post! I agree one hundred percent! Bravo!

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Right, fly from home is one of the best things the fractional industry has going for it. The problem is, this contract takes a very shortsighted approach to getting it by only guaranteeing it to the current pilots. Keep in mind that after a couple years, there will be lots of new, pissed off pilots wanting to know why the chosen few gets fly from home and the others have to live at five horrible gateways. It arbitrarily creates a group of haves vs. a group of have-nots and it's determined solely by date of hire. Unions always seem to be on sharp lookout for union busting measures, but this is a trojan horse that they're apparently avoiding because of the pay raise. I think NetJets wanted this arrangement because they know that in four years it's going to be a 50/50 split and they won't have to worry about facing a unified pilot group.

I'm glad that you're happy with the TA. Because I live near a gateway, I'll still most likely apply when I meet the mins. But keep this in mind, your TA has a trojan horse in it and it will come to haunt you.

13.1(b) Home Base Airport Participation
The Company may limit Crewmember participation in the Home Base Airport system to thirty (30) percent of the total number of Crewmembers on the most current seniority list, including crewmembers who have relinquished Home Base Airport rights pursuant to Section 13.2(b). Such percentage may be less than thirty (30) percent if crewmembers designate Domiciles, or more than thirty (30) percent because of grandfather rights as defined in Section 13.1(a).

It does not say that they will limit to 30% put that they may limit it. If they cant get enought new hires who volunter to live in CMH,DAL,LAX,TEB or PBI then the company will not have enough pilots and have to cave in and give new hires FFH. No where does it say that new hire HAVE to live in the domiciles just that the pilots on property will not be subject to the 30% limitation. I bettting they cant find enough pilots to move for just 39000 and no chance of bypass unless they want to lower the hiring mins. so that 500 hour cfi's qualify. My advise for people who interview and get the job offer and are told to move to TEB domicile just tell them thank you but you cant accept the job if you are required to move and you will accept the job if you can still live in MCO.

 

[zman300]

"If I am, you REALLY should try going without a union; I promise you, employer-employee relations can be GOOD without one."


Spoken like a true believer

Well of course! It's just my opinion, based on my experience. I did say "...I could be wrong. If I am...." I mean, if NJA employees still aren't happy and they think their union reps are STILL selling them short, they need to try something else; something that might work. That's just common sense, isn't it?

 

[zman300]

A perfect post! I agree one hundred percent! Bravo!

Well thank you; thank you very much! I have my moments

 

[RTRHD]

Hello all, Just ckecking everything out.

 

[SeaSpray]

For someone who doesn't even work there, COLONEL, you sure have a big mouth. Stop embarrassing yourself.

-Just another "under-qualified," ex-military Netjets Captain.

I get it, Captain. You sound like a former Army Warrant Officer with a high school education and a built-in resentment for Commissioned Officers who's just all giddy to be flying something where the wings don't move faster than the fuselage. Give it a break, Chief.

 

[Frac Daddy]

You are precisely correct. Years ago the ailrine industry tried a similar approach with creating a two tiered (b) pay scale. The industry is still reaping the results of that fiasco. Soon the former "B" scale pilots outnumbered the "A" scalers. Guess what, they took over the union and they never got over being considered second class citizens. Allowing this to infiltrate their contract will backfire on the "A" domicilers, sooner rather than later.

Bingo!

 

[TurboJetCpt]

I get it, Captain. You sound like a former Army Warrant Officer with a high school education and a built-in resentment for Commissioned Officers who's just all giddy to be flying something where the wings don't move faster than the fuselage. Give it a break, Chief.

As a retired commissioned officer, I am very embarrassed FOR you. Your type gives us all a bad name. Some lucky young, non-military, aviator will end up in a cockpit with you while you spew out your self important, OVERLY QUALIFIED, self righteous GARBAGE. I hope he/she puts you in your place COLONEL OVERQUALIFIED.

We have MANY academy graduates here who have flown for the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard. Are we all under-qualified too COLONEL ? You need to do a little RESEARCH before you sh*t all over YOURSELF. Some of the best pilots I have ever flown with have never flown a military airplane. Military training doesn't make you "better" or "safer," but you'll learn that eventually. Please keep your promise and do NOT apply at Netjets; we are extremely happy with your decision.

 

[axeman]

Santulli

No word from SC regarding the Santulli visit on ouor website or pagers. I think that we're all looking for information regarding how the dust will settle on this one... we know you guys want to fly the G's, and we want to keep things the same... time will tell.