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Salary for a corporate pilot in this case...

Rhetro

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Oct 16, 2007
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Hello.

I was wondering is someone could point me in the right direction and I figure this could be a good place to get some feedback.

I'm a pilot that has been flying in the FO seat with a company for the past 7 years without a raise. I have never been typed until this past feb. My captain doesn't let me fly so I don't have much PIC turbine time. I make about 33,000 AFTER taxes.

I know what you're thinking: Why the hell would I stay without moving forward. Simple, I get paid a decent salary and I only work about 130 hrs a YEAR. They paid for my type rating and gave me my commercial helicopter license. I'm not really able to relocate as my mom lives in the same town where I do and her health is't too good. She's also by herself and needs me around.

I have time off to work two other jobs. This is the unfortunate aspect: I racked up some substatial debt inproving the house I now live in. You could say that I've been a fool with my money. I'm not proud of that fact, but I'm trying to fix some of the damage this debt is causing.

I've been thinking about asking the boss for a raise, because my captain doesn't seem to give a care. It's never been a big deal until now when money has become tighter than ever.

I wanted to know what I could put on the table when negotiating with the boss of the company. I don't want to go in unprepared. Some things like:

1) I'm now typed in the jet we fly so it's co captain not FO.
2) I've only got about 2900 total time (half of that is SIC turbine -I know, essentially useless
3) I'm dual rated in jets and helicopters
3) I've been LOYAL to the company for 7 years.

again, I make 33,000 after taxes. I'm wondering what a fair increase in my pay is without insulting the boss and without selling myself short?

any ideas?

Thanks in advance.
 

guido411

ShesGoneFromSucktoBLOW!!
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Don't know, going to need to be specific. . .

$33,000 AFTER taxes, what does that mean? What tax bracket are you in, how many dependents do you claim, are you married filing jointly, how much do your other jobs pay? Doesn't do much good to say how much you make after taxes. Let's talk in real numbers. Also what type of airplane are you flying? Your profile says "cessna, be40". . .what is it? Citation? Which model? Beechjet? Are you typed because insurance said you had to be but still only riding shotgun? Do you fly this helicopter for companesation of company business? Part 135 or 91 for each? What kind of helicopter? Even after you answer all these questions I still would have to say, "Sorry, Charlie" you've been TOO loyal and have set a precedent. You needed to nut up years ago and get your just desserts.

All that being said. . .Beechjet pilot flying part 91 should be in the 65-75k range by ProPilot and AvCrew. Dual rated should bring you 10-20k more depending on the amount of helo flying assuming that is part of your job description. By the way, all of this is assuming that you are acting as a CAPTIAN and not just "captain qualified."
 

landlover

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Not to disrespect you, but you are letting them abuse you for waiting 7 years to ask for a raise. You should have begun asking 6 years ago, and asked for one every year after. Typed or not the company took advantage of you for 6 years, and you let it happen. You speak of the helicopter training as if it was payment, if you fly it now for any other reason then your own pleasure, then you basically do more work for the same pay. I would be totaly honest with the boss man and tell him you need a raise and you deserve one for your years of loyalty. If the boss man doesnt see it your way i'd quit. Its not 2001 anymore, everyone is hiring.
 
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Mountain Troll

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A type rating does not a captain make. If you aren't active with the stick and rudder and decision making... you aren't the captain. No disrespect to you but, using the type rating they provided to you, for you and later using that against them for money is like taking a hostage. How much was the helo training $50k $75k?
 

ditchpilot

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pay raise

Go over the CP's head deal with the owner directly. I have been on both sides of this issue as FO I had to go to the decision makers and ask for the pay raise and as CP I have asked yearly for raises for the FO.
As far as no stick time you need to be flying every other leg. The CP's job is to hire co-captains not radio tuners if he does not trust you after 7 yrs you should not be working for him.
 

Captain Morgan

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I agree with all of these posts. I've been in the same kind of situation. Good pay, no stick time, d-bag captain. I left after 5 months because I'm not going to sit there and get verbally abused to be a radio operator. You are a pilot, not a slave! I agree you waited to long but I admire you for your loyalty.

CM
 

Wiggums

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The problem is that you haven't asked for a raise in seven years. Are they really going to take you seriously now? It sounds like if they don't give you a raise you'll stay anyways, and they probably know it. The other problem is debt. It's making a serf to your employer because you cannot risk losing your job. If you had six months living expenses you would be in a much stronger position to negotiate.

This is not 2001 anymore, with your times you could be back to work in a matter of days.
 

400A

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What ever you do, do not mention your personal financial delima's. It will appear t them that you are not responsible. (something they would want in a Captain)

Do your homework on what someone in your position makes. If the company only wants an SIC then you will not have much ammo. Even as an SIC you may be under paid. Be honest though, I also am confused by your AFTER Taxes comment. If you are on the book numbers you may have more difficulty in your fight. I hold your CP responsible for not giving you a minimum of cost of living increases, UNLESS that was agreed upon prior to employment. If you agreed to ratings for the plane and helicopter in lieu of raises then you have no gripe.

Should you go to the owner before you talk to the CP, then you must realize it will strain you relationship with the CP.
 

treetop flyer

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Tell us where you're based...maybe someone knows of another outfit looking.

I'll admit, the helo rating is a nice perk, but I wouldn't condiser it (the training) as part of your compensation package.

Putting your personal financial position aside, unless you've done a TERRIBLE job for your employer, a SIGNIFICANT raise is in order and it sounds like YOU need to get the ball rolling. Find a few salary surveys and get to work.

Should you go to the owner before you talk to the CP, then you must realize it will strain you relationship with the CP.

I agree. Talk to your CP, if that doesn't do the trick, go up the food chain.

Treetop
 

cyork25

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you know, your after tax comment has me confused too. 33000 after taxes could mean you are making in the 50's. Depending on state taxes and your tax brackett. I don't know, but it sounds to me like you are whining about a situation that is your own fault, 7 years is a long freaking time
 

bizjet800

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Someone once said, "You don't get paid what you are worth, you get paid what you negotiate!" Which is the same as saying, "you deserve what you put up with." I'll leave the seven years of no raise banter up the other bloggers. Go to a book store and get a book on salary negotiations. This will give you the ammo you need to get yourself a raise.
 

Tgaug6300

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If the owner of the aircraft also owns a company, and I assume he does. Have the other employees in the company received any raises in the past seven years? Has the Captain you have been flying with had a raise in seven years (I bet he has, he is just not telling you, because like the others said he's a D-bag)?
If the owner can not afford to give you or his other employees even a Cost of Living increase, perhaps he really shouldn't be flying around in a Beechjet.
 
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skeeter666

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You need to look around for another job, then when you have your ducks all lined up, ask for more money. If they decline, then walk. There are way too many jobs out there! Let us know how it went.
 

Rhetro

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Ouch.

points taken -constructive or otherwise

moving right along...

Let's just say the loyalty issue is of paramount importance. This isn't JUST about flying and there are numerous factors that I won't go into.

As for the ones touched upon, I'm sorry for being vague. Let me be a little more specific:

You are correct in that the cp keeps things under his thumb and makes no hint as to what he brings in salary wise. However the cp has mentioned that he has gotten a raise, but it was 7 years ago when I came on. The cp formed the flight dept 12 years ago and I'm his 3rd FO. The flight dept is small: The CP and myself.

I have received an annual increase for every year I've been here.

Sorry about the after taxes remark -that doesn't make much sense. I make $57,000 a year period. We fly an average of 130 hrs a year. Not married, no dependants. Living in TX.

I was typed in the Beechjet 400 in March of this year. The company was in the market for helicopter so they began my training in an R22. They finally purchased a Bell 206 and I completed my training in the 206 back in July of this year. Like the Beechjet, it is used for company pt 91 purposes. Same situation as the jet with not much stick time.

The CP knows that I intend to talk to the boss and actually offered to talk to him on my behalf. I told him thanks but that I needed to talk to the boss myself. But you're right, going behind his back wouldn't have been the prudent thing to do.

There have been no contracts signed at any time during my employment.

The pilot survey is my next step. Thought I'd give this a shot and get some feedback.

I hope this offers a clearer picture.

thanks in advance.
 

400A

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Good luck with the owner.

It may be that the company only alows for an SIC, and not 2 PIC's. If that is the companys position and now we know that you have gotten cost of living increases, then I do not think they are out of line at $57K. It sounds like the position simply has no room for advancement. This is the reason I lost my last Co-Captain of 6.5 years. He was paid on book scale as a PIC and we also only fly 125 hours per year, but he is young and there was nowhere for him to advance his career. He got a great opportunity, gave 2 months notice, left in excellent standing with the company and we still use him as a back up pilot to this day. This is how you may need to handle your situation. Do not burn a bridge. You were very wise to get your CP's support.
 

G100driver

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Have you asked the CP why you cannot fly legs?

You might gain some insite as to his mentality. Either he is a control or there is something else there that you are missing.
 
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