Rude Welcome Awaits JetBlue

[canyonblue]

Ya, you are so right.. From SWA.

Fly between Dallas Love Field and select cities from $39 to $79 one-way with 14-day advance purchase! Book by December 1, 2006 for travel December 1, 2006 through March 9, 2007.

They can charge $5, as long as I don't have to take a paycut to finance it.

 

[Spectre]

And so it begins.

The legacies, flush with money, are now going to really turn the screws to JBLU. Wherever JBLU tries to "expand" to, the legacies will be there waiting to drop their fares to loss-leader levels.

Oh but that's OK for JBLU. They don't need to make money. That won't hurt them at all.

You JBLU cheerleaders keep whistling past the graveyard. Keep an eye out for that tombstone with People Express written on it.

No airline is immune to market pressures. You suggest JB is on the same path as People Express? Well, JB doesn't own any B-747s on the property yet, so we are OK for now.

Are you sounding the same warning to legacy carriers to keep an eye out for the tombstones with TWA, PAN AM and EASTERN written on them too?

 

[lowecur]

And so it begins.

The legacies, flush with money, are now going to really turn the screws to JBLU. Wherever JBLU tries to "expand" to, the legacies will be there waiting to drop their fares to loss-leader levels. Yes, I'm sure B6 is quaking in their boots. Heaven only knows that the legacy's couldn't afford to turn the screws in BK, but now look out. :laugh: :laugh:

Oh but that's OK for JBLU. They don't need to make money. That won't hurt them at all. Neelebarger will just not take a salary in the coming years and will wash cars to make ends meet.

You JBLU cheerleaders keep whistling past the graveyard. Keep an eye out for that tombstone with People Express written on it.

That must have been the thump under the right tire of a 190.

imp:​

 

[AAflyer]

No airline is immune to market pressures. You suggest JB is on the same path as People Express? Well, JB doesn't own any B-747s on the property yet, so we are OK for now.

Are you sounding the same warning to legacy carriers to keep an eye out for the tombstones with TWA, PAN AM and EASTERN written on them too?

Spectre,

I agree with what you say. We are at a crossroads none of us have been before. Historically when major airlines (legacies) have done poorly in the past the LCCs (or whatever they used to be called) did rather well.

While slightly over used the words "perfect storm" come to mind.

LCCs in the past have never been as well financed, and they never have grown as much as they have now.

While Legacies in the past have taken paycuts, and furloughed to lower costs, never in the history of the business have they done it so dramatically, to the point in some cases of actually meeting the LCCs at certain costs.

There were commuters, however not full ACMI jet operaters like Republic, Comair, Skywest.

We did not have code-shares with Int'l carriers to enhance revenue, and the thought 20 years ago of NWA,CAL,DAL all selling seats on their respective airlines would get you laughed out of a room.

I don't think you can compare JB to the likes of Peoples Express, however it is anyones guess what can and will happen.

Good Luck to All of Us, we are all pawns, and all one terror strike from falling out of the sky.

Regards,

AA

 

[flying bubba]

AAFlyer,

Awesome post. Glad to see some common sense in this.

One point to maybe consider on EWR is in the fact that JFK cannot support more flights to FLA with the situation over there. Until that terminal gets finished, it is almost maxed out. That could be another reason why SWF came up so quickly. Just to rid some of the flights out of JFK.

Just a thought....

 

[flying bubba]

sorry

 

[AAflyer]

AAFlyer,

Awesome post. Glad to see some common sense in this.

One point to maybe consider on EWR is in the fact that JFK cannot support more flights to FLA with the situation over there. Until that terminal gets finished, it is almost maxed out. That could be another reason why SWF came up so quickly. Just to rid some of the flights out of JFK.

Just a thought....

Thanks,

What I find very unique about the JB model is it operates out of a huge Int'l hub airport compared to many LCCs in the past. In my beleif the reason we do not operate mainline aircraft bewtween both cities ORD-JFK is there is not enough conecting passengers, Europe flight can be flown out of ORD, and similiar flights can be taken out of JFK. The business folks like LGA with it's location near downtown.

For all practical purposes we are not competing. What will be interesting to see is if we put mainline jets into JFK from ORD. It would have to be 757s, as that is the smallest jet we are hubbing in JFK. We started a little while ago in DFW, it actually worked very well. There are numerous other In'tl airlines in JFK that other passengers fly, why not grab some of them. That is the group I think will flock to JB. They picked up a cheap flight on Air India, or EgyptAir, (insert airline) and need a cheap fligt to JFK.

regards,

AA

 

[Spectre]

Spectre,

I agree with what you say. We are at a crossroads none of us have been before. Historically when major airlines (legacies) have done poorly in the past the LCCs (or whatever they used to be called) did rather well.

While slightly over used the words "perfect storm" come to mind.

LCCs in the past have never been as well financed, and they never have grown as much as they have now.

While Legacies in the past have taken paycuts, and furloughed to lower costs, never in the history of the business have they done it so dramatically, to the point in some cases of actually meeting the LCCs at certain costs.

There were commuters, however not full ACMI jet operaters like Republic, Comair, Skywest.

We did not have code-shares with Int'l carriers to enhance revenue, and the thought 20 years ago of NWA,CAL,DAL all selling seats on their respective airlines would get you laughed out of a room.

I don't think you can compare JB to the likes of Peoples Express, however it is anyones guess what can and will happen.

Good Luck to All of Us, we are all pawns, and all one terror strike from falling out of the sky.

Regards,

AA

Most of the pilots at JB were furloughed from other carriers and thus would wish absolutely no ill will towards the same pilots whom we used to fly with. As for LCC's, SWA was seen as the same model as People Express and are now thriving with 400+ airplanes and industry leading pay and benefits (for their aircraft type anyway).

The decrease in fuel price has helped everyone, but expect that to go up again. If that happens, how much more can you cut pay and benefits? I think we all fear higher fuel prices more than terrorism right now. Sure, I was furloughed 3 months after 9/11. However, I believe without 9/11, higher fuel prices and poor management decisions would have had the same result on past furloughs, pay cuts and bankruptcies. Just not as dramatically.

We can only hope the legacies can continue to improve their business models as they offer business class, first class, international flying, and route networks that SWA, AirTran and JB cannot match. Each airline can carve out its own nitch in the marketplace and survive long-term with its competitors. But if fuel goes above $100/barrell, a lot of us will have to go looking for a real job.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I don't work for JB, but, honestly, I'm surprised it took this long for them to finally acknowledge that you have to include the midwest (namely, Chicago) in any growth plans if you want to continue to grow.

I know it's probably been a huge struggle to get the one gate that you managed to get at ORD...and, does anyone know - does the gate belong to someone else? I don't know who payed off who with regard to Midway, but SWA has that whole enchilada locked up for a long time...

Here's how I see it...the ORD-JFK pair will probably do very well...EWR, LGA and HPN are well served from Chicago...JFK, not so much.

The California stuff, though, good luck. Just between AA and UA, flying into inconvenient, out of the way LGB is going to be a tough sell for business folks...

Me and a lot of other folks were wondering when you were going to start flying to cities in the Midwest; with the enormous amount of airplanes that still remain undelivered, any idea where the rest of them are going to go?

-brew3

You are missing the history behind jb and ORD. We have wanted to go in there for years, but no space available. From what I hear O'Hare played jb off of UA to get UA to pay its bills. This is a big and natural step for jb. Lowecur is right -- it is about offering more options to its already loyal customers, while at the same time getting JetBlue's name out to the midwest. Although I consider that the North.

 

[lowecur]

AAFlyer,

Awesome post. Glad to see some common sense in this.

One point to maybe consider on EWR is in the fact that JFK cannot support more flights to FLA with the situation over there. Until that terminal gets finished, it is almost maxed out. That could be another reason why SWF came up so quickly. Just to rid some of the flights out of JFK.

Just a thought....

With 21 gates up and running at JFK, B6 is supposed to have capacity for 185 flts. Don't know how many they are doing at present, but they should be OK till the new terminal rolls out.

EWR and SWF were both started to free up space at JFK and offer convenience to loyal Jetblue travelers that used to commute from NJ and the Newburgh area. Jetblue wants to be the dominate domestic carrier in the NYC area, and frankly they are doing a great job with limited facilities at LGA and EWR.

imp:​

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

The bottom line is, JBLU (with low costs) is not making money. JBLU is going to keep expanding into money losing scenarios. Legacies are going to keep pounding them. There is no getting around this.

Employee "problems" have already begun. Pilot upgrade opportunities slowing down significantly. EMB pay rates gnawing away at pilots stuck in that plane. Unions will be on property in the next couple of years. Wait until mass defections begin when all of the legacies start recalling at full steam.

JBLU has nothing going for it anymore. Even the press reporters that were slobbering all over JBLU a year or two ago are now turning againsed it asking questions about long term survivability. Now you are just left with losers like lowecur to pump your Hindenburg up. Sad.

JBLU = People Express

 

[SpeedBird]

The bottom line is, JBLU (with low costs) is not making money...... JBLU has nothing going for it anymore. Even the press reporters that were slobbering all over JBLU a year or two ago are now turning againsed it asking questions about long term survivability. Now you are just left with losers like lowecur to pump your Hindenburg up. Sad.

JBLU = People Express

Frankie,

Look what has happened to you!

Remember when you showed ol' General Seawell how to make money in stocks at his great expense. Those were the good old days when your financial prowess was almost unmatched in the business. Now, you sound like just another ignorant airline pilot that got his business education from watching cnbc.

What a shame to see you've turned into such a financial dolt.

BTW, have you noticed that JBLU stock is up over 5% today and almost 40% in the last 30 days. I bet the smart money people know something you don't. HaHaHaHa!

 

[clickclickboom]

And so it begins.

The legacies, flush with money, are now going to really turn the screws to JBLU. Wherever JBLU tries to "expand" to, the legacies will be there waiting to drop their fares to loss-leader levels.

Oh but that's OK for JBLU. They don't need to make money. That won't hurt them at all.

You JBLU cheerleaders keep whistling past the graveyard. Keep an eye out for that tombstone with People Express written on it.

And so it begins:

The legacies come back.. Pilots are pissed at lower pay and benes, work slowdowns, sick calls, informational picketing, strikes, cancellations, etc etc etc.. Management decides to drop $10 mil to combat this guy on that route and 20mil on the other before you know it you have another major spending 500,000,000 per year to fight with everyone, a pilot group with a new contract that will cost the company 2 billion more per year, throw in the a few bad quarters and some golden parachutes for management and the 10 year cycle repeats itself

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

The bottom line is, JBLU (with low costs) is not making money. JBLU is going to keep expanding into money losing scenarios. Legacies are going to keep pounding them. There is no getting around this.

Employee "problems" have already begun. Pilot upgrade opportunities slowing down significantly. EMB pay rates gnawing away at pilots stuck in that plane. Unions will be on property in the next couple of years. Wait until mass defections begin when all of the legacies start recalling at full steam.

JBLU has nothing going for it anymore. Even the press reporters that were slobbering all over JBLU a year or two ago are now turning againsed it asking questions about long term survivability. Now you are just left with losers like lowecur to pump your Hindenburg up. Sad.

JBLU = People Express

I took the time to review Frank's posts from this past year. He has bashed JBLU, UAUA, AA, and Airtran to just name a few-- but he hates JBLU with a ferver. My conclusion: He was an abused child....

 

[lowecur]

The bottom line is, JBLU (with low costs) is not making money. Francis, a 25% increase in PRASM year over year in October is a good indication that they are making money. JBLU is going to keep expanding into money losing scenarios. Legacies are going to keep pounding them. There is no getting around this. I think they not only got around it, but stepped on your grapes in the process. Oooo, I bet that felt good.

Employee "problems" have already begun. Pilot upgrade opportunities slowing down significantly. EMB pay rates gnawing away at pilots stuck in that plane. Unions will be on property in the next couple of years. Wait until mass defections begin when all of the legacies start recalling at full steam.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

JBLU has nothing going for it anymore. Even the press reporters that were slobbering all over JBLU a year or two ago are now turning againsed it asking questions about long term survivability. Now you are just left with winners like lowecur to pump your Hindenburg up. Sad. It has been reported that Jetblue 190 pilots are jumping from their driveways to the swales in mass numbers. Many have reported sprained toes and ankles and have called in sick. My guess is the airline will not put up with this much longer, and will cancel all future orders and sell the remaining a/c. They will probably reorder new a/c through Eclipse where they are guaranteed to fill the planes and maintain reasonable flt crew pay. JBLU = People Express

.....

imp:​

 

[Spectre]

The bottom line is, JBLU (with low costs) is not making money. JBLU is going to keep expanding into money losing scenarios. Legacies are going to keep pounding them. There is no getting around this. Just like SONG pounded on JB.

Employee "problems" have already begun. Pilot upgrade opportunities slowing down significantly. EMB pay rates gnawing away at pilots stuck in that plane. Unions will be on property in the next couple of years. Wait until mass defections begin when all of the legacies start recalling at full steam. There are no "problems" at other carriers. Just JetBlue. Pilot upgrades are slowing to over 3 years on the A320 and over 1.5 years on the E190. What are the upgrade times where you fly? Unions were thrown off the property this year by our ground workers. The vote wasn't close.

JBLU has nothing going for it anymore. Even the press reporters that were slobbering all over JBLU a year or two ago are now turning againsed it asking questions about long term survivability. Now you are just left with losers like lowecur to pump your Hindenburg up. Sad. Investors have absolutely missed the boat in buying JB stock over the past two weeks. What are they smoking?

JBLU = People Express

Frank Lorenzo = Eastern Airlines

You're both already history. JBLU on the otherhand is doing just fine.

Mass defections? I've turned down my NWA recall. However, I've thought it over hard about whether or not to go back:

TOP TEN REASONS I'D GO BACK TO NWA.

10. I dig the 65 year old flight attendants. (Sorry grandma)
9. I miss wearing a hat. (I know, not required anymore)
8. I'd maybe get a chance to fly E190s with NWA colors at Compass!
7. I miss the steam gage flying on the Diesel-9. (Initial heading please)
6. First class meals are better than my lunch bag. (Sorry honey)
5. I'd get a chance to fly the DC-10. (Darn, you're retiring them?)
4. International flying baby!
3. My frozen pension worth $2.00/month for life!
2. I'd rather trade my top 10% seniority for the bottom 10% at NWA.


And drum roll. The number one reason to go back to NWA. TWO WORDS!

1. DWANE WOERTH! (What, he's not ALPA prez anymore?)

 

[elag777]

You'll fill them...............but at a loss.

Especially, with those taxi times and high percentage of delays at BOTH JFK and ORD.

The gas alone will make that route unprofitable.

Nah...after a long taxi people in the back will have to swipe their credit cards for the ORD gas surcharge, otherwise "back to the gate!" after two hours out there I would start "swiping " myself!

 

[MD80DRVR]

Yeah, we're screwed in ORD. This will be the first airport that we fly into that has delays and where the competition will match our fares. Start the taps now, we're done.........

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Which one of you jb pirates thinks the 320 upgrade is three years? Are you kidding me?

I bet it is 5-6 years for me at a 10/month rate. The 190 thing is gonna screw everything up when the fence goes down.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Giggle all you want now, but after the losses continue quarter after quarter, it will not be funny anymore. The JBLU quarterly earnings call will continue to be a game of "guess the excuse." What will be the excuses for the losses throughout the winter? Poor weather? Increased ATC delays? Let me guess, everything except poor management.

If you think I am the lone ranger when it comes to being a JBLU hater, you should check out the union board. The vast majority has a seething hatred of a group that comes out weekly with new and innovative ways to whore out the profession.

Speaking of which....how do you guys have time to post so much on here? Shouldn't you be out doing back to back trans-cons? If any of your flight attendants fall asleep due to fatigue on the trip, be sure to fire them.

God bless the "5 year contract."