Rude Welcome Awaits JetBlue

[BLUE BAYOU]

Giggle all you want now, but after the losses continue quarter after quarter, it will not be funny anymore. The JBLU quarterly earnings call will continue to be a game of "guess the excuse." What will be the excuses for the losses throughout the winter? Poor weather? Increased ATC delays? Let me guess, everything except poor management. Our CEO and COO are the only Major Airline management team still in place since 9/11-- I'd say they're committed to doing a good job, not selling us out and taking their millions like the others have...

If you think I am the lone ranger when it comes to being a JBLU hater, you should check out the union board. The vast majority has a seething hatred of a group that comes out weekly with new and innovative ways to whore out the profession. You're not the only lone ranger, but you ought to point your finger in the direction of the Freedoms, Mesas and the Republics who've driven the profession down faster and harder. Last I looked at pay scales, I do better than a UA captain flying the same equipment and I don't have to work 85-90 hours and get only 13 days off...

Speaking of which....how do you guys have time to post so much on here? Shouldn't you be out doing back to back trans-cons? If any of your flight attendants fall asleep due to fatigue on the trip, be sure to fire them. When you have 1700 pilots with laptops and wireless capability, it's not hard to understand why we have the time or the means.

God bless the "5 year contract." So far how many pilots have been released at their five year point, ahhh let me count here, ahhh, ZERO!!!! Lighten up Francis!!

 

[J32driver]

Giggle all you want now, but after the losses continue quarter after quarter, it will not be funny anymore.

Frank... I generally find you amusing in a sick sort of way. But you are starting to speak like a zealot. You are loosing your charm.

Stick with the witty bantor, you are much better at it than the spewing of venom.

Ok... I gotta get off the boards and figure out how to single handedly whore out the profession some more.

 

[accinelli]

ORD is ready for B6. Breath of fresh air actually.
What ever happened to the Spirit of competition.
Lets see the majors compete with service along with price (the service aspect is conveniently forgotten).

 

[clickclickboom]

I agree Usually I like Franks comments and in a sick sort of way he looks like my 7th grade math teacher..

Step back and add to the fun here or you will start to sound like those two buffoons 32lt some one and jp4 bbj king someone

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Don't forget to calculate retirement.....

Lowering the bar?

After a legacy pilot averages in his paycheck value while on furlough and strike, I wonder who makes more money over a 20+ career...

....even so, if the A and B plans survive in to retirement. The legacy pilot will have made much more than the LCC pilot and will have flown less hours. Not a proud fact, just a fact.

 

[Spectre]

Which one of you jb pirates thinks the 320 upgrade is three years? Are you kidding me?

I bet it is 5-6 years for me at a 10/month rate. The 190 thing is gonna screw everything up when the fence goes down.

I guess it depends when you were hired. You must be a new hire if I figure my math correctly around line number 1450ish. If you had 600 FO's in front of ya, how long do you think it would take to upgrade at NWA or UAUA or LCC or Delta right now. More like 10-15 years at legacies as most have negative growth and only upgrades to fill retirements. Then again, I don't think you'd be a new hire there since they aren't hiring. Even SWA upgrades are running 5-6 years. If you really wanted a fourth stripe, you can take an E190 upgrade in 1-2 years. There are many pilots who'd love to have the so called problem you seem have here at JB.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I guess it depends when you were hired. You must be a new hire if I figure my math correctly around line number 1450ish. If you had 600 FO's in front of ya, how long do you think it would take to upgrade at NWA or UAUA or LCC or Delta right now. More like 10-15 years at legacies as most have negative growth and only upgrades to fill retirements. Then again, I don't think you'd be a new hire there since they aren't hiring. Even SWA upgrades are running 5-6 years. If you really wanted a fourth stripe, you can take an E190 upgrade in 1-2 years. There are many pilots who'd love to have the so called problem you seem have here at JB.

Wrong. Low 1200s. Been hear little over one year. I bet my upgrade to bus ca will be 4-5 years from Jan 2007. That will be 5-6 years at substandard fo wages. Don't forget to factor all of that slowdown in. Why upgrade to the 190? I can make as much as a 320 FO with much more seniority and MUCH less hassle (maint issues, up and down up and down up and down etc etc, uncommutability etc).

You argument about the legacies doesn't work here. Even the bankrupt ones pay better and offer better benefits.

As for the ones that are willing to have my problem, it's called a ponzi scheme.

One bright spot though -- there will be plenty of pilots leaving or being recalled (2 in my class gone already, 2 more soon to follow) so maybe we will all upgrade from attrition.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I guess it depends when you were hired. You must be a new hire if I figure my math correctly around line number 1450ish. If you had 600 FO's in front of ya, how long do you think it would take to upgrade at NWA or UAUA or LCC or Delta right now. More like 10-15 years at legacies as most have negative growth and only upgrades to fill retirements. Then again, I don't think you'd be a new hire there since they aren't hiring. Even SWA upgrades are running 5-6 years. If you really wanted a fourth stripe, you can take an E190 upgrade in 1-2 years. There are many pilots who'd love to have the so called problem you seem have here at JB.

You know, this place is alright if you are an Airbus captain senior to 500 or so. It is a different company after that. Especially for our JetBlue Express operators.

 

[SellingDirt]

Chef

just a question; why don't you leave. If your disgusted with B6 it would seem logical to punch out. You talk like your entitled to something? Am I missing something, An entrepreneur started a business and offered to pay you a salary that you accepted? Make no mistake, you "work for the man". If your disgusted about pay, benefits ect... go start an airline or better yet jump into Real Estate, it's a great way to make a Lot of money. Just an observation

 

[Spectre]

Wrong. Low 1200s. Been hear little over one year. I bet my upgrade to bus ca will be 4-5 years from Jan 2007. That will be 5-6 years at substandard fo wages. Don't forget to factor all of that slowdown in. Why upgrade to the 190? I can make as much as a 320 FO with much more seniority and MUCH less hassle (maint issues, up and down up and down up and down etc etc, uncommutability etc).

You argument about the legacies doesn't work here. Even the bankrupt ones pay better and offer better benefits.

As for the ones that are willing to have my problem, it's called a ponzi scheme.

One bright spot though -- there will be plenty of pilots leaving or being recalled (2 in my class gone already, 2 more soon to follow) so maybe we will all upgrade from attrition.

Don't count on any A320 pilots to leave when recalled. I do agree about some leaving from the E190 FO ranks though. I'm with you about pay and benefits. As it takes longer now for upgrades, the FO wages needs to be seriously looked at to make sure we are competitive with other carriers. I think our management will "do the right thing" and you'll see those adjustments made here soon.

We all got a 30% pay increase after 9/11 and it may be time to see some increases now as the market will allow. It's pretty hard to get raises when you're not making money. Financially, 2007 looks like a good year.

First two year's FO pay at JB are competitatve. 3-5 years down the road needs improvement. Maybe someday, we'll all have SWA parity.

JB FO A320 1st year $51, 2nd year $56
JB FO E190 1st year $37, 2nd year $40
NWA DC9 1st year $30, 2nd year $57
Delta 737 1st year $48, 2nd year $66
UAUA 737 1st year $31, 2nd year $50
LCC E190 1st year $41, 2nd year $44
AAI FO 1st year $43, 2nd year $56
SWA FO 1st year $52, 2nd year $88

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines.html

 

[clickclickboom]

You know, this place is alright if you are an Airbus captain senior to 500 or so. It is a different company after that. Especially for our JetBlue Express operators.

I remember a vastly different Bavarian Chef just a few months back..

I understand that things have changed slightly and as an FO I am not real happy about that either BUT would you rather see the company make smart moves for long term or just throw it all away.. We are still talking 14-16% growth next year..

You will see an FO increase but in the meantime you can choose to be a part of the solution or a part of the problem. What is your choice?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

ORD is ready for B6. Breath of fresh air actually.
What ever happened to the Spirit of competition.
Lets see the majors compete with service along with price (the service aspect is conveniently forgotten).

As a flight attendant, you sure would have first hand knowledge of that one, huh putz?

 

[elag777]

Wrong. Low 1200s. Been hear little over one year. I bet my upgrade to bus ca will be 4-5 years from Jan 2007. That will be 5-6 years at substandard fo wages. Don't forget to factor all of that slowdown in. Why upgrade to the 190? I can make as much as a 320 FO with much more seniority and MUCH less hassle (maint issues, up and down up and down up and down etc etc, uncommutability etc).

Where were you before? I am sure they miss you. It is amazing to hear that someone with a little over 12 months feels cheated or that he/she is owed something.

You argument about the legacies doesn't work here. Even the bankrupt ones pay better and offer better benefits.

Well in that case go back when you get the call, I'll drive you to the train station. Maybe you don't have that option, but I am sure you can find somewhere else to complain?

I guess when you get to upgrade you will be bitchin about the rsv lines....:bawling:

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Don't count on any A320 pilots to leave when recalled. I do agree about some leaving from the E190 FO ranks though. I'm with you about pay and benefits. As it takes longer now for upgrades, the FO wages needs to be seriously looked at to make sure we are competitive with other carriers. I think our management will "do the right thing" and you'll see those adjustments made here soon.

We all got a 30% pay increase after 9/11 and it may be time to see some increases now as the market will allow. It's pretty hard to get raises when you're not making money. Financially, 2007 looks like a good year.

First two year's FO pay at JB are competitatve. 3-5 years down the road needs improvement. Maybe someday, we'll all have SWA parity.

JB FO A320 1st year $51, 2nd year $56
JB FO E190 1st year $37, 2nd year $40
NWA DC9 1st year $30, 2nd year $57
Delta 737 1st year $48, 2nd year $66
UAUA 737 1st year $31, 2nd year $50
LCC E190 1st year $41, 2nd year $44
AAI FO 1st year $43, 2nd year $56
SWA FO 1st year $52, 2nd year $88

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines.html

I know of two in my class that will leave the Airbus when they can. It is happening. Plenty of my 190 classmates are pretty fed up with the whole 190 side. Upgrade times were what kept dudes coming to jetblue and allowed us to stomach historically low payscales and inadequate benefits. Long upgrades coupled with long reserve times put a dent in salaries and earnings potential across the board.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I remember a vastly different Bavarian Chef just a few months back..

I understand that things have changed slightly and as an FO I am not real happy about that either BUT would you rather see the company make smart moves for long term or just throw it all away.. We are still talking 14-16% growth next year..

You will see an FO increase but in the meantime you can choose to be a part of the solution or a part of the problem. What is your choice?

You are right, I am a little different. Yet I do my job like everyone else. And I do it well. I owe the company that. But what I do has no bearing on whether we are profitable or not. Come on boys, let's not pretend all is well at jb.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I guess when you get to upgrade you will be bitchin about the rsv lines....:bawling:

Why wouldn't I? Reserve at jb is horrendous, cs is horrendous. But then only those on reserve or those that have stood reserve in the last two years know that. Your comment, the classic purse slap, has no real point. If you want to pretend that all is well at jb, then go right ahead.

Jb would be a good job if it weren't for the pay and benefits and underwater options and scheduling "guidelines" ... well it would be a good job. Not great. Just good. No epiphanies here.

And I never said I was cheated or was owed something. Those were your words, maybe you inferred it from my tone. All I did was state my opinion on the current state at jb, an opinion shared by many on our own little mess of a website.

If you and others think there is light at the end of the tunnel, then I am happy for you to be able to see that far ahead in the future. Jb is a very risky place to be right now, IMHO. Take it or leave it. It's not an indictment of you or any other jb pilot that thinks otherwise.

Good day.

 

[elag777]

Why wouldn't I? Reserve at jb is horrendous, cs is horrendous. But then only those on reserve or those that have stood reserve in the last two years know that. Your comment, the classic purse slap, has no real point. If you want to pretend that all is well at jb, then go right ahead.

Jb would be a good job if it weren't for the pay and benefits and underwater options and scheduling "guidelines" ... well it would be a good job. Not great. Just good. No epiphanies here.

And I never said I was cheated or was owed something. Those were your words, maybe you inferred it from my tone. All I did was state my opinion on the current state at jb, an opinion shared by many on our own little mess of a website.

If you and others think there is light at the end of the tunnel, then I am happy for you to be able to see that far ahead in the future. Jb is a very risky place to be right now, IMHO. Take it or leave it. It's not an indictment of you or any other jb pilot that thinks otherwise.

Good day.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass then.....

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass then.....

Now that's what I call the "JetBlue Experience."

 

[elag777]

Now that's what I call the "JetBlue Experience."

Your experience is what you make of it...

 

[da90drivr]

Chef,
If your number is around the 1200 range your pay is no lower than when you were hired and your med is costing you a little more this year.
Did you not do any research prior to accepting the job? None of your friends told you what to expect?
Welcome to the airline industry! Sh*t changes on a daily basis.