ISaidRightTurns said:
Has anyone flown them yet?
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0505/00026CANUK.PDF
I'm looking at the CANUK1 from the SE. After HUSKY at 14 on an east op, what happens? Do you go to BOJAA then just turn downwind? Does approach call the base turn when running visuals? When on ILS, do you cross HESPI at 4k, then turn to join the LOC?
I work the center, so we aren't too clear on what difference this makes than the normal SINCA arrival in this case. I heard it saved Delta thousands, I just don't see how.
Also, what is the clearance when you talk to APPCH? Do they tell you cleard via east/west procedures, or are you expected to allready have the information and just do it?
Any other airports with RNAV arrivals?
ISRT,
Somewhere on the arrival, depending on what runway ATL is using, they'll clear you for the CANUK1..Runway XX. Many times ATC will also include "Descend via the CANUK1..Runway XX." Now, everyone is on the same descent, freeing ATC from issuing descent clearances, radar vectors, etc. Since this arrival takes you on the downwind to the runway and the fix stops before turning base, TRACON would then provide vectors to the final. NOTE: check the "Notes" section on the bottom left. It specifically says "Expect Radar Vectors to Final Approach Course prior to EMJAA WP." That tells me they continue to fly you all the way to HESPI or WOTBA then turn you. IE. "N1234, Cleared CANUK1 runway 9L. After HESPI, turn right heading 360°."
If you look at the SINCA3, it does give you crossing restrictions, but it leaves you at 12,000 or 14,000 all the way to ATL VOR. Descent and vector after SINCA or HUSKY now have to be provided by ARTCC/TRACON. It's more workload for controllers as well as pilots. On modern FMS/FMC (note the equipment required to shoot the RNAV arrival) these waypoint AND alititude restriction are already programmed in the database, further eliminating several steps a flight crew would have to program.
Now I, thankfully, don't have to fly into ATL (we generally use PDK), I don't know how your folks at center actually handle these arrivals. I've flown several RNAV arrivals and generally make it a habit to verbally confirm I'm cleared to descend on an RNAV arrival. CYA...better safe than sorry...whatever you want the argument to be. I just make it a practice.
It wouldn't surprise me in the near future if these arrivals weren't "linked" to an ILS approach, must like LAX. European airports have been using this procedure for years. You'll get "Cleared to descend via XXXXX# arrival, ILS XX. Generally speaking, you'll still receive a clearance for the ILS by the final controller. However, should you experience lost comm, they now know exactly what you're going to be doing, rather than flying to the FAF and holding until your ETA, or if you late, just shooting the approach. Does this make any sense?
RNAV arrivals are great. Like I said, all fixes/altitudes are already in the FMS database and really reduces crew workload / heads down time. When linked to an approach I can see how it would be a great time/fuel saver for operations like the airlines. Just note that the requirements for using an RNAV arrival are pretty steep. For example, on the CANUK you need ATC RADAR, DME/IRU or GPS, Turbojet only, /E,F,G & R (RNP 2.0). Not everyone, even the airlines, will be able to accept this procedure.
Regards,
2000Flyer
PS - If you have a way of communicating with your counterparts at Las Vegas, they have been the leader in the US for using RNAV procedures.
