Right seat captain stories

[Twinpilot]

I've flown with people like you. You like to sit back and watch someone struggle and then fail just so you can save the day and stroke your ego.

Why not be a team player in that situation and help the guy out by either talking him through the FMS, etc., or at least taking some of the workload from him so he can succeed. By just watching him fail you added nothing whatsoever to his experience level except to be even more stressed out the next time he is confronted with that situation. Lets just hope he can bid avoid you in the future so he can fly with Captains who believe in mentoring their FO's.

I was trying to keep it as short as possible without filling an entire page...in any case, there was no need to program an FMS for a 10 mile visual...I certainly did try to help this FO out on a visual approach. He just needs some more time in the airplane to become fully comfortable. The point was that he spent 2 days telling me how to fly, instead of trying to learn how to become a better pilot. I try to learn something each leg...the day that stops, you just became dangerous. I spent 2 years as a flight instructor...and have a double degree in education...I am the FIRST to try to help someone out and teach...kinda like the FAR's require and ATP to do. You totally missed the point. If you want a full on dissertation of the events that transpired...read mine. It's in the National Library in Washington DC...under falling education system in America. Never completed the PhD, to become a pilot instead...and if you'd read the entire post, you'd understand that I have a full appreciation for the fact that there are TWO required seats in the airplane...that means two of us...not a dictator-ship. There are not 4 stripe and 3 stripe desicions...there are 7 stripe decisions. If I do something wrong...I fully hope that my FO will catch it. That's the beauty of being human.

 

[Twinpilot]

Dood, get this. As a prior 135 capt, and a 121 F/O now, he's right on the money. Once you upgrade to anything bigger than a 172, you'll learn that you never let an FO take you where you cant get out of. Unfortunately, the judgement piece that MOST pilots have already learned, you have just seen a glimpse of. Visual approaches, weather, etc. The 121 capt's I fly with have absolute horror stories, yet also have some very good attitudes towards them. Those of us, that came from a university program, yet got years of experience prior to entering the 121 world get it. Your experience comes at someone elses' certificate. Not yours. We gained our experience in flying night freight, oragans, charter, and teaching for years. You haven't been violated for turning RIGHT to a heading of 070 off rwy 8R in atl. You havent lost a wiper blade into the right engine at 250 kts on final approach because the F/O couldnt see outside. At the end of the day, you should be grateful for the opportunity as I, with 5k total time and several types, still am for the opportunity for guys with more airplane and life experience share it with me.

Guys that share the relase and aid in brining the F/O along to help and get their opinion in operations decisions, my hat is truely off, and may I operate like you one day in the 121 enviorment.\

Unfortunately, the 121 world fills at the 61 enviorment of gaining experience. That's the way it has to be for now. Cowboy up and use some common sense and fly the airplane.

As a 135 capt, I welcomed new F/O's. However, their attitude was not one of holier than thou. It was one of willingness to learn. Long goes the saying, I showed him everything he knows....just remember its everything he knows, not everything I know. We all had to start somewhere, but dam**it the new breed needs to start appreciating what they have and be grateful for it.

You're exactly right! You also touched on the fact that you never gain experience without trying. I tried to help my FO along a visual approach...and he will get better, with some more practice. But, when push came to shove...it was finally a little too unstable for my comfort. If I fly with him again, I'd do exactly the same thing...however, in the teaching process, I imagine that the next time, he will be more than able to land the airplane just fine. I value every moment I have had with other pilots with more experience than I. I value every moment with pilots with different experience than my own. That's how we all learn and become better. No one out there knows it all, and never will. They guy or gal that says they do, is one to stay away from.

 

[on autopilot]

I've flown with Captains that scared me. One almost caused an inflight break up over Georgia, fell asleep, it was his leg to fly, I took control of the aircraft and pullled us out of a steep dive, not an easy thing to do when flying the Irish Concorde, for my efforts he reported me to the Chief Pilot, Next the spincter decided he was going to yell at me because Fed Ex brought our cargo late, can't do paper work without paperwork, you know the drill, right?

Well, I would say fisticuffs was about to ensue when Fedex called on him and asked the Company what this guys problem was. Next, on final approach into SJU, we get loss of power in both engines on final, I remember this really nice building it was gold I think or tan and we were headed right for it. The Captain being the authority that he is, FREAKS OUT.

I'm like hey we can put down here, or here. Thankfully we get both engines back and land, I urge him to write it up, he's afraid of getting terminated so he doesn't.

I left that operation VERY shortly after that.

T GATES MY FRIEND -YOU WERE RIGHT.

I think as an F.O. you are there to learn from a competent Captain who should prep you to eventually assume a command position at the airline. You are there to learn, not say, well in school the told us....... You don't know how to wipe your own butt yet if you could find it with a map and a flash light.

Learn all you can, if you see a Captain that is dangerous, protect yourself and NEVER bid a trip with them again.

CHEERS!!

 

[on autopilot]

I was trying to keep it as short as possible without filling an entire page...in any case, there was no need to program an FMS for a 10 mile visual...I certainly did try to help this FO out on a visual approach. He just needs some more time in the airplane to become fully comfortable. The point was that he spent 2 days telling me how to fly, instead of trying to learn how to become a better pilot. I try to learn something each leg...the day that stops, you just became dangerous. I spent 2 years as a flight instructor...and have a double degree in education...I am the FIRST to try to help someone out and teach...kinda like the FAR's require and ATP to do. You totally missed the point. If you want a full on dissertation of the events that transpired...read mine. It's in the National Library in Washington DC...under falling education system in America. Never completed the PhD, to become a pilot instead...and if you'd read the entire post, you'd understand that I have a full appreciation for the fact that there are TWO required seats in the airplane...that means two of us...not a dictator-ship. There are not 4 stripe and 3 stripe desicions...there are 7 stripe decisions. If I do something wrong...I fully hope that my FO will catch it. That's the beauty of being human.

I've got tears in my eyes after reading that........damn onions!!

All jokes aside, that is a very true statement. I wish the idiot captains would take this advice to heart.

 

[Soverytired]

I agree to some extent. Call it laziness or apathy, I tend to just let it be for the sake of decorum. I mean I won't tolerate dangerous behaviors or back talk to myself or ATC or other members of the crew but for the most part I let them entertain themselves with their endless drable of consciousness. If you give a jack A$$ a hand grenade eventually he will blow himself the F up.

"Squashing like bugs" might be a little harsh. The fact is though, right-seat-"captains" generally tend to be ignorant of the more subtle cues that the actual captains are trying to give.

The more clueless the FO, the harder the captain is eventually going to have to "STOMP" to get his attention. And if they STILL don't get it, I'd highly recommend going to the chief pilot and having a pointed discussion about flight safety and lack of CRM because of the FO's attitude and performance issues. You might be the captain, but you're not his supervisor. So go to the supervisor and get the problem fixed instead of punting it down the road for the next poor captain.

Invite the FO along, certainly, but in the rare, rare instance of a truly thick-headed fo (or captain, for that matter), intervention from the chief pilot is really where this sort of thing needs to go before an accident happens.

 

[Flyerdan]

I was trying to keep it as short as possible without filling an entire page...in any case, there was no need to program an FMS for a 10 mile visual...I certainly did try to help this FO out on a visual approach. He just needs some more time in the airplane to become fully comfortable. The point was that he spent 2 days telling me how to fly, instead of trying to learn how to become a better pilot. I try to learn something each leg...the day that stops, you just became dangerous. I spent 2 years as a flight instructor...and have a double degree in education...I am the FIRST to try to help someone out and teach...kinda like the FAR's require and ATP to do. You totally missed the point. If you want a full on dissertation of the events that transpired...read mine. It's in the National Library in Washington DC...under falling education system in America. Never completed the PhD, to become a pilot instead...and if you'd read the entire post, you'd understand that I have a full appreciation for the fact that there are TWO required seats in the airplane...that means two of us...not a dictator-ship. There are not 4 stripe and 3 stripe desicions...there are 7 stripe decisions. If I do something wrong...I fully hope that my FO will catch it. That's the beauty of being human.

If I misinterpreted your post I apologize. I don't think I totally missed your point though. The point I was wanting to make was that your FO could have probably just pointed the aircraft at the runway and landed it but the systems got in his way and he could have used some help. I know our SOP requires us to program a visual approach in the FMS, back it up with an ILS if it's available, and in training they promote the idea of using the autopilot until almost a short final. This puts the new guys at a disadvantage because they are trying to get a feel for the jet as well as get a handle on managing all the systems.

Maybe that guy had it coming because he was trying to act like he knew what he was doing when he didn't.

 

[rightseatjocky]

I just flew with a brand new (female) First Officer off IOE.
We were flying to Key West at night. My leg as I would not let her fly down there. Again we're flying at night and she is messing with all the buttons on the clock. I asked her what she was doing. She said, " I am trying to turn down the light on the clock".
I started laughing and thought to myself.
"YEP, ANOTHER EMPTY DANCE CAGE" !!!!
:beer:
uke:

 

[FlySacto]

Originally Posted by Flyerdan
I've flown with people like you. You like to sit back and watch someone struggle and then fail just so you can save the day and stroke your ego.

Why not be a team player in that situation and help the guy out by either talking him through the FMS, etc., or at least taking some of the workload from him so he can succeed. By just watching him fail you added nothing whatsoever to his experience level except to be even more stressed out the next time he is confronted with that situation. Lets just hope he can bid avoid you in the future so he can fly with Captains who believe in mentoring their FO's.
I
If I misinterpreted your post I apologize. I don't think I totally missed your point though. The point I was wanting to make was that your FO could have probably just pointed the aircraft at the runway and landed it but the systems got in his way and he could have used some help. I know our SOP requires us to program a visual approach in the FMS, back it up with an ILS if it's available, and in training they promote the idea of using the autopilot until almost a short final. This puts the new guys at a disadvantage because they are trying to get a feel for the jet as well as get a handle on managing all the systems.

Maybe that guy had it coming because he was trying to act like he knew what he was doing when he didn't.

Sorry Flyerdan, but I don't sense that you've watched a clusterscrew about to take place from the left seat or read his post very well. I think Twinpilot was more than kind in his response to your hipshot remarks. Giving flight instruction to a <300 hour pilot on the FMS at 2 1/2miles/min during a last moment runway change on a visual approach would be plain stupid, yet you think Twinpilot's there to stroke his ego? The poor FO was screwing the pooch during a basic airmanship skill! There's a time and a place for the Captain to give instruction and act as a mentor. It's not when things are getting very stupid real fast. Re-read Twinpilot's post again. I'd fly in his right seat in a heartbeat. He's got it right in his proceedure and attitude. Re-read yours again and believe me, you'd be counting your heartbeats if you ever flew in my right seat if you talked that krap!

 

[flyguy81]

I just flew with a brand new (female) First Officer off IOE.
We were flying to Key West at night. My leg as I would not let her fly down there. Again we're flying at night and she is messing with all the buttons on the clock. I asked her what she was doing. She said, " I am trying to turn down the light on the clock".
I started laughing and thought to myself.
"YEP, ANOTHER EMPTY DANCE CAGE" !!!!
:beer:
uke:

or another empty kitchen

 

[rightseatjocky]

Laughing,
Amen to that Flyguy!!!
:beer:

 

[Long Time Gone]

NQP's aren't permitted to anyway. Lack of brain cells is one of the reasons.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Long Time,
That is just one thing that happened with her on this flight. There were so many things this chick did that I had to ask her how she passed IOE.
I just didn't want to tell everything that went on. I just couldn't believe it.
I thought you would like that one though.. Punching buttons on the clock was one that I had to laugh about though.

 

[spudskier]

Spudskier,

"and some of them should've have never made it"

That is just YOUR useless opinion. You either make it or you don't! There is no barely or almost, it is either pass or fail, and the type is a ZERO F#ck Up event!

IF YOU WANNA BE A CAPTAIN THEN JUST BECOME ONE, AND QUIT TALKING! Until then you can STFU!


If there is something to be said I want my FO to speak up. I also want him/her to use good CRM. That being said you should try to respect the Captain. I know I always did! (I am not saying that you should not speak up or make sure that no mistakes are made).

First of all, I want to make it clear that I respect the captain and their authority. When I walk onto a flight deck, the captain automatically has my full respect. This is theirs to lose. It doesn't happen often but there are captains out there that passed their checkride on either pure luck or an easy checkride, who knows but the training department will absolutely back me up on this one, that there are captains out there who shouldn't be. These captains are the exception to the rule and not commonplace, but DO exist.

I do speak up when necessary, always in a respectful and professional manner and unless the situation (which I've only encountered twice) warrants it, my speaking up is usually in the form of a gentle and professional suggestion/reminder or posed in the form of a "playing stupid" question. I know couth, I know politics and I know professionalism.

I'm guessing you would never speak to me as a HUMAN BEING as you just did if this was a face to face conversation. Try having a little respect and professionalism, just because this is an anonymous message board, doesn't mean social graces go that far out the window. you don't know me or my background and I think you know better than to say "become one or STFU." If I could, I would, but the economy and state of the industry has other things to say about that. I am not limited by my abilities.

 

[Flyerdan]

Sorry Flyerdan, but I don't sense that you've watched a clusterscrew about to take place from the left seat or read his post very well. I think Twinpilot was more than kind in his response to your hipshot remarks. Giving flight instruction to a <300 hour pilot on the FMS at 2 1/2miles/min during a last moment runway change on a visual approach would be plain stupid, yet you think Twinpilot's there to stroke his ego? The poor FO was screwing the pooch during a basic airmanship skill! There's a time and a place for the Captain to give instruction and act as a mentor. It's not when things are getting very stupid real fast. Re-read Twinpilot's post again. I'd fly in his right seat in a heartbeat. He's got it right in his proceedure and attitude. Re-read yours again and believe me, you'd be counting your heartbeats if you ever flew in my right seat if you talked that krap!

REALLY? If you were 15 miles out on a visual approach you don't think you would have time to do just a little instruction when you are the non-flying pilot? You must not be very proficient or just plain incompetent. Hell, most Captains I fly with could be on a close in base during a short approach and still demonstrate the few keystrokes necessary to get the FMS programmed properly.

 

[viper548]

I had a FO bring the thrust levers to idle at 500' because we were 10 knots fast. Thank God I had an extra pair of pants in my suitcase