Ricci is out at FLOPS!!

[FracPilot]

Something that might make everyone happy, or at least us ex-RTA pilots, is that a bunch of us were displaced out of seats, why were no FO pilots displaced?

Those of us that are not holding seats out of seniority were all for reorganizing the FO side. The only pilots against it were the guys that were holding positions that their seniority would not allow. Most of them said if they were displaced to a smaller airplane, or to SIC, they would quit. I say LET EM GO! If they quit, we will easily fill their seats. It will be interesting to see what happens with the jr CL601 Captains that are getting displaced to a smaller airplane right now. I bet most of them will quit within 6 months.

Again, did not hear a single original FO guy complain or even say the XRTA guys were getting screwed.

Well you must've had your earplugs in, or you just heard only what you wanted to. Many of us said you guys were getting hosed in the whole re-organization crap.

The RTA guys were supposed to suffer in silence cause the FO guys and girls were ascendant. Let's see if the original FO boys can take a butt buffing without squealing.

First of all, it was far from silence. Second, you are an extremely bitter and vindictive pilot, aren't you? If many people think like you, the us-vs-them thing is going to get way out of hand.

You seem to have this thing for screwing the FO pilots at any cost. Not getting any at home?



All the FO pilots, voice your opinion on this issue to management. You can sure bet that many of the RTA pilots are. Ask around in OCC. It was pretty obvious last week in there that there is a lot of grumbling on this, and several other issues, by many RTA pilots.

I'm sure management knows that reorganizing the seniority list by DOH would be a sure fire way to get a Union on property immediately. Many RTA pilots are already for it - and something like this would cause most FO pilots to be for it, as well.

 

[Aspiring to be]

”I went from 240s to 460s...”

GooseHZ;


I would like to ask you a question. Using your numbers old of 240 and new of 460 I do not see how you can say you lost ground in the merger. It is my understanding that there were more RTA pilots than FO pilots. Even take away the date of hire and if you just merged one for one or on a equal percentage basis then you should have a new seniority number of at least 480. How did you lose? I guess the FO guys use that new math to figure they lost ground. Just think that if you double the number of pilots (and you more than doubled) and you retain your relative seniority (I am talking about a % basis, which is the only way you could ever determine if you lost or gain). Just looking at your numbers you moved up in relative seniority not down. You should be closer to the left seat and not further away. The numbers will not compute the way you are trying to state your case. If you take into account that the RTA pilots had a higher average date of hire I would say that the RTA guys got a double screwing. I do not believe that the first FO pilot lost relative seniority. I do believe that most if not all RTA pilots’ lost relative seniority.

 

[Aspiring to be]

FracPilot ;

You talk about a union if you are affected in a negative way but you care not about the negative treatment of many of the RTA guys. What gives with people like you? Do you not believe in fair and equal treatment? Sounds like youi are the bitter one.

 

[FracPilot]

You talk about a union if you are affected in a negative way but you care not about the negative treatment of many of the RTA guys. What gives with people like you? Do you not believe in fair and equal treatment?

Funny that somebody that claims to have nothing at stake is getting so involved in an issue that doesn't involve them. I do not for a second believe you are who you claim to be, but I will answer your questions anyways.

Yes, if the seniority changes and I get bumped out of my aircraft by a former RTA pilot I will be upset. They had 3 CL601s. If they are allowed to take the seat that I have been in since well before the merger - a seat which they would never have had a chance at to begin with at their original company - is it "fair and equal treatment"? Not in my opinion. If anything were to happen with the seniority list, it should be split back into two separate lists and maintained that way. Who loses then?

Sounds like youi are the bitter one.

Not at all. Just realistic. Did I say that I would be for a Union if things change? No. I said MOST would. I think I am in a position to have some idea how it would affect the majority of the pilot group.

The way you speak of the seniority issue, you seem to have been involved in the whole thing when it was voted on and such. Still want to claim that you have nothing at stake on the issue?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go do something productive to make up for the colossal waste of time involved in replying to you.

 

[GooseHZ]

Fuzzy math

Aspiring,

Ok what you belive and what you know......what do you know?

240 in a list of 520 (i think)

now im 460 out of 903.

HS-125 PIC was held by 180

240-180=60 OLD

now HS-125 PIC is held by 250 (give or take)

460-250=210 NEW

i had 60 spots to go with about 20 or so HS-125s not too bad
Now i have 210 spots to go with what about 45 HS-125s?
the way i see it i got the short end.....just like alot of other pilots. i think some chages need to be made....lets make it fair. But dont preach to me how much better off i am and how all the others got the shaft. All your post did was cry and b1tch about how BAD it is for RTA pilots....well.....do you have any suggestions on how to fix it....or is posting what you "think" or what "should be" all you have to say?


Fly safe!

 

[Grim Reaper]

GooseHZ.

Yeah, I'm pissed, real pissed. I work with you FO guys cause I have to, not cause I want to. I got screwed bad by KING RICCI. I did not like it then and I do not like it now.

Are the XRTA guys complaining to the NEW CEO about how they were treated during the takeover? You Bet. Not only are they complaining to the new CEO of Flight Options, they are complaining to the CEO of MOTHER RAYTHEON. Will that change anything: No.

Will the seniority list change again. UNLIKELY, in fact, it is not even possible based on numbers.

At the time the FO TAKEOVER of RTA was announced in DEC 2001, there were more RTA pilots than FO Pilots. 35 plus RTA pilots left RTA prior to the TAKEOVER. So, Dispite what many think, at the time of the TAKEOVER, there were more pilots of Flight Options origin than of RTA origin. Since the TAKEOVER, as many as 50 former RTA types have parted company with Flight Options for one reason or another. A simple majority vote among the pilot force will preclude any alteration of the seniority list. That is the hard truth.

What is possible is an alteration of PIC vs SIC positions with pay protection. That may happen sooner than you think.

 

[GooseHZ]

wow

Grim,


man you are so very bitter. i sorry we "FO guys" make you so sick.
We the pilots did nothing to you.If so please feel free to find a new place to work. Or why dont you help out and work to make this a better place to work. No matter what you and your IBT buds say Options is a great place to work.


Fly safe....and take a pill grim.

 

[vixin]

Cant we all just get along?

I am in agreement with the options pilots. Grimm why dont you be part of the solution instead of the problem. Ill bet you are a charm to fly with if the other guy is an options pilot. There are many things that arent fair in life, but you have to be the one to take action to improve things. Come up with a solution that will be good for the majority afterall you are supposed to be working towards the same goal.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Hey Grim, you bitter old man, if this company is wrecking your life so bad, why don't you resign, like your RTA buddies did prior to the MERGER. That way happy junior guys like me can move up that seniority list!! I'd be willing to bet everyone junior to you would love to see you leave. It would make all of our lives a little better. You suck.

 

[Aspiring to be]

GooseHZ,

Please think hard and tell me how you say you added about 25 Hawkers and the bottom PIC number dropped by 10. 240 to 250. Could it be that the bottom PIC on the FO Hawker was a little out of seniority. The number of spots have nothing to do with anything other than just a number. Your time to check out by seniority entitlement was not effected by the merger. You doubled the number of pilots; you doubled the number of aircraft. If your seniority number doubled and it should have then you lost zip.

The problem has been an increase of time to check-out and that is caused by the recession etc. If the company continue to grow as it had in the past then the check out time would not have been effected. The average check out time at EJA has increased also due to a little slower pace of growth.

For the check out time not to be affected then you would have to continue at the same percentage increase which would require more and more aircraft to be sold each year. Over a period of time it would take a very big increase in numbers to keep everything the same.

I have no idea what the saturation point is for the fractional business, I have heard numbers like 3 to 4 thousand aircraft. At some point it will be difficult to continue to grow. Those that will be hired then will have a long time before than will be able to fly as PIC. At some point it could come down to retirements to make room for promotion. Promotion based upon retiring pilots is a very slow method.

 

[GooseHZ]

???

Yes some PIC where out of order....from BOTH Sen Lists....some RAT pilot froget that thier list was not all that fair either. Thats why some where displaced when FLOPS took a look at the RTA list. Is it fair that the FO pilots where not displaced. Not at all.I think it should br fixed.


As far as my numbers go....i got them from the POSTED list on our website......

"I have no idea what the saturation point is for the fractional business"...your right you dont. And why do you care?


Fly safe

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Aspiring,

You sure have a deep interest in the frax business, Flight Options in particular. You still haven't mentioned why you give a rat's a$$ about our company. Because you know a couple of people who fly here? I know a couple of people that fly at United, and a couple who fly at American, but you don't see me trying to solve their problems, or even bring them to light. Maybe you could give an explanation, and I don't want to hear your former RTA pilot friends used as scapegoats.

 

[Aspiring to be]

I have several very good friends at FLOPS, all came over with RTA. One was illegally terminated by FLOPS because of his involvement in the union effort at RTA. As you know a lawsuit has been started in their behalf by the IBT.

I do think that the RTA pilots took it in the shorts on the merged seniority list. From most of the post that I read that comes from ex FLOPS many wanted the RTA pilots put on the bottom of the list. Many pilots wanted to keep the RTA pilots away from any bigger equipment. Many denied that Raytheon had merged with FLOPS and retained a 49.9% ownership. Many denied or ignored the fact that Raytheon had loaned FLOPS money without which they would have probably folded.

I see most FLOPS pilots as looking after their own interest. Since the takeover of FLOPS by Raytheon a few posters are saying they are for fair and equal treatment but I really do not see it in their post. It appears to me that FLOPS pilots have blinders and have tunnel vision. Maybe it has something to do with those gosh awful ties you wear. The RTA pilots lost there Raytheon retirement when some were just days away from being vested. No the RTA pilots lost a lot and the FLOPS pilots gained. The FLOPS pilots gained by their seniority. The FLOPS gained by having much newer and better maintained aircraft. I know most at FLOPS would say that is not so but I would bet if you asked any bystander and gave them all the facts I am sure they would agree.

I do not like FLOPS for what they have done to my friend. I have seen his suffering and I really suffer with him. I feel that in the end he and the others will win the legal battle and will be compensated for there suffering and their illegal termination. I do applaud the changes that have taken place at FLOPS since Raytheon has taken control and I hope for future changes. I hope to see my friend back where he belongs. I hope that FLOPS or whatever the new name might be to be a success and for people to build a good career and life there. Yes due to our many conversations with my friend I have the opinion that the ex RTA pilots got the short end of the stick in many ways. Every fact that I have seen confirms that. Many of the facts confirm in my mind at least that some of the pilots of FLOPS have refused to see past their noses.

I have time on my hands due my health. I was working for a fractional operator. I try not to get involved but when I see some things I feel that I must respond. I understand aviation and the issues that you and every pilot must face. I do believe that I understand fairness and I will continue to speak out for fairness.

 

[Aspiring to be]

GooseHZ,


I have been told that on many occasions when pilots were hired they put the higher time or more experienced in the jets. This was not always the case but many times you were assigned an airplane based on your experienced level.

I guess at RTA there was one pay for all equipment and the rub was that some of the King Air pilots were in the King Air due to their lack of experience but the check out time was much less. The next effect was that many times the less experienced pilot and the more junior pilot was receiving PIC pay when those more experience and senior were paid as SIC. I do believe that this was one of the reasons that the union effort was started at RTA. The reverse of that is that you had some junior people flying the Hawker when the senior pilot might be stuck in the Beech jet.

I doubt if many of the RTA pilots complained about the change of equipment due to proper seniority entitlement. I do believe that many complained that the pilots of FLOPS were not affected and their out of seniority equipment or seat was not being corrected. Hence this is one of the reasons that you were close to a PIC in the Hawker as you have complained before.

 

[FracPilot]

Aspiring,

With all your babble, it is now 100% obvious that you are one of the former RTA pilots that was terminated. Not only do you push the union drive any chance you get, but your posts are almost identical to some that have been posted by some of the terminated and their IBT cohorts. You have exhibited very specific knowledge about one of the three types of aircraft that RTA operated, info that you would not have known without having an aircraft checklist of AFM in your hands.

For you to know all that you do, you 1) spend all day every day poring over every message on the RTA/IBT board, 2) speak to your "friends" that are from RTA 5-8 hours a day, nearly every day, 3) are a disgruntled, former RTA pilot involved with the IBT union push, or 4) are a current Flight Options pilot that is involved with the IBT. The psychobabble they teach you guys is always the same and never changes. Maybe if you guys didn't all say the same thing over and over it wouldnt look so orchestrated.