Ricci is out at FLOPS!!

[fogrunner]

Who? Oh yea Ken Ricci's old college roommate. He is not assigned an a/c. No, there are a few guys in the 300s on the DA50 and CL601 who are PICs.
It is going to get interesting if some of the larger airplanes go away and these guys are displaced to the smaller cabins. I don't think the bean counters will go for guys flying the BJ or CJ and making large cabin pay. What do you think?

 

[BE40Driver]

I think they should do the same thing that they did to the TA list . Fly only what your number can hold and pay protected with your pay frozen till they can hold a large cabin. Sounds GOOD to me!

 

[fogrunner]

So you are saying, if one of these guys holds a a CJ Capt he should be paid his large cabin pay. I think not. Theses guys were way jr to a lot of us prior to the merger. Some are FOKs. These guys leaped frogged us 2.5 yrs ago getting all the gravy while we languished in the small cabins.
I may be wrong, however, I think our Raytheon minders wont be so generous.

 

[FracPilot]

So you are saying, if one of these guys holds a a CJ Capt he should be paid his large cabin pay. I think not.

So you're saying that a pilot should only be paid the position they hold, correct? So what about all those exRTA guys that were displaced to SIC positions - should they all be paid SIC pay since that is what they are flying? No. Do you propose we only pay protect the exRTA pilots?

Nobody likes that those jr pilots are in those positions - except for those pilots themselves. I paid my dues, spent my time in smaller aircraft, and when my seniority allowed I upgraded to Captain on the Falcon. I don't think it's fair that there were guys in the same position that were hired into the position more than 2 years after I started with the company. The jr Falcon & Challenger Capts was over 200 numbers junior to me before the merger. I didn't like it - but I do feel that they should be pay protected, as all the RTA pilots were.

 

[BE40Driver]

Maybe it is time to put everybody in the seat that they can hold, like they did to the exRTA guys before the merger. Now the FOKs won't be protected and it will be fair to all.

 

[fogrunner]

I received a call from a check airman today that there is a strong push from the snr RTA pilots to go with date of hire. John Nahill in a management meeting is said to be considering the idea. Oh Boy..

 

[BE40Driver]

That sounds too good to be true. The guy that is one number in front of me was hired 13 months after me at FO. The pay schedule should change so we don't lose pay to upgrade. 4th year BJ capt pay is more than 1st Hawker pay.

 

[GooseHZ]

why

I hope that xRTA pilots dont waste time talking about changing the list to DOH........dont they know how much money would be spent on that.........do they(xRTA) really thik that RTNs give a hoot about what they think??? or that they care what FO pilots think??? NO THEY DONT. Our new CEO will do whats best for FLOPS not what best for one group of p1ssed off pilots of a company that is GONE!!!!!!

BE40,

i agree with you on the pay schedule that needs to be looked at.



fogunner,

mabye we should have a meeting with Nahill and talk about keeping it the same, since there seems to be a FO pilots group and xRTA pilot group here and no one wants to work together i guess we should just meet in the back yard and work things out.

I dont know about you but im sick and tired of the b1tching between FO and XRTA pilots....


FLY SAFE!

 

[BE40Driver]

GooseHZ, My only grip is the 40 or so large cabin pilots that were hired in and placed in a seat that thier number could not hold at FO. RTN paid to redo the list once, they might do it again. I am NOT looking to have it done again. Your right RTN & FO are now gone, It is only FLOPS.

Fly safe-

 

[Grim Reaper]

Does not matter what it cost to revert to DOH. Current seniority system is BS and unfair. The head Cheer Leader, Ricci, gave all you original FO guys unfair advantage even though FO do not exist until two years after RTA opened for business.

We got XRTA guys un to top 100 on the list that can not hold a PIC postition and must fly SIC for a FO guy with a 320 seniority number becasue of the pure Horse Hockey Ricci ideal of expectations. Well boy-o's, I had and have expectations and my expectation is that the seniority list will revert to date of hire with no arbitrary _uck factor that give the FO guy unfair advantage.

My other expectation is that you fly want your seniority number allows you to fly not what you expected to fly.

 

[GooseHZ]

Grim,


So you want to hose all the top 100 Fo guys so you can be happy? I cant belive that you think cost has nothing to do with it?
Lets think that out....do a DOH list let every one bid for what they can hold......OK. after that there are lets say 300 pilots that can move to diffrent A/C.........200 of them need types.

200 X 35K(guess)=7 mil
200 X 35K=7 mil ( to replace those that moved)
then you add in the charter sell offs to cover trips while everyone is at FlightSaftey......then you add in the time they do IOE.....on and on and on........RTN is here to make money not lose any more.


COST IS A FACTOR. 14 mil is alot of cash.
I went from 240s to 460s...i was 6 months from a hawker now im a year or more. I know you RTA pilots feel you where hosed and ALOT of FO pilots where hosed. Instead of bitching on this board why dont you think of a FIX. straight DOH will not be fair to FO pilots at all. If you think its Fair your selfcentered. Do i think its fair now....no. Buts its what we have now and what can we do about it. Im all for looking at the list again and trying to come up with something that makes most of us happy. But form all the crying i have heard from you making you happy is hard. Didnt you have the chance to vote....or do you think that was fixed?

so tell me what you would do to fix the problem.......a fix thats fair to most of US...we are all on the same TEAM....Flight Otions LLC. We need to work together.....


sorry about going off....but again im sick of the RTA vs FO pilots...

 

[ukipilot]

Something that might make everyone happy, or at least us ex-RTA pilots, is that a bunch of us were displaced out of seats, why were no FO pilots displaced? Yes we were pay protected, but they could have pay protected the FO pilots the same way, there are a bunch of fo pilots that could not hold what they have now if they did this, this way everyone that was displaced would still be able to keep their pay but not their seat, was it fair to us? yes and no, it would have been more fair if fo pilots were displaced also, another issue that needs to be addressed is that a bunch of new hires are moving right into the hawker, at least an open bid for hawker sic should have happened first before they stick new hires in the hawker

 

[Grim Reaper]

Ricci hosed the top 100 RTA guys and not a sole from the original FO list made a sound and now you have nerve to grip because it might happen to you. Funny how the table have turned.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Ricci spent at least the 14Mil amount of there GooseHZ. What do you reckon it cost for 30 plus Beech Jet types not counting all those that only needed recurrent. I got bumped out of the Hawker back to the Beech Jet. And, oh by the way, I did not have a Beech Jet Type. 18K just for me. Again, did not hear a single original FO guy complain or even say the XRTA guys were getting screwed.

Well, you may be tired of the XRTA Vs FO guys battle. Suggest you put your hands over your ears and sing Cumb-Ba-Ya if you do not want to hear any more of it. Cause more is coming and it is gonna get real loud.

The RTA guys were supposed to suffer in silence cause the FO guys and girls were ascendant. Let's see if the original FO boys can take a butt buffing without squealing.

 

[GooseHZ]

LOL

Grim,

there you go...getting all worked up. READ my post! i know things need to change to make it fair for ALL. NOT JUST RTA pilots. I will ask you one more time what would you like to see done? Do you have any suggestions other than staright DOH? You know that would not be fair to ANY FO pilots. just to you.

how about doing a new bid you get what you can hold...but keep your pay? would that make you happy? if so email Mr.Nahill and suggest the change.

FOpilots did get screwed.......none where displaced but many where put down the list. Adding years until thaey can upgrade to anything bigger. Yes some RTA guys where displaced...but where givien the PIC pay. I know a few that have already upgraded in the CJ.

"Let's see if the original FO boys can take a butt buffing without squealing."

what kind of BullSh1t comment is that? Not all FO pilots wanted to see any one of you guys get hosed......pilots on both sides acted like a holes when the merger was going down. Im sory for that, if any of them pissed you off let me say im sorry for them. they should not act that way. as i said we are a team......we should act that way. Work to find a FIX.......but you just seem to have your ears and eyes covered not wanting to play nice. YOU Grim..or merlin....wich every you are will not be happy until all FO pilots are hosed and you are #1 on the list.Why is that what did the FO pilots do to you? We did not make the changes or work the deal, we where just doing our jobs tyring to stay out of trouble........Talk about FIXING the problems and help FLOPS grow. Like i said there need to be changes but fair ones for all. If you dont want to do that go back to the IBT baord and wave your union flag.

FLAY SAFE!

 

[FracPilot]

Something that might make everyone happy, or at least us ex-RTA pilots, is that a bunch of us were displaced out of seats, why were no FO pilots displaced?

Those of us that are not holding seats out of seniority were all for reorganizing the FO side. The only pilots against it were the guys that were holding positions that their seniority would not allow. Most of them said if they were displaced to a smaller airplane, or to SIC, they would quit. I say LET EM GO! If they quit, we will easily fill their seats. It will be interesting to see what happens with the jr CL601 Captains that are getting displaced to a smaller airplane right now. I bet most of them will quit within 6 months.

Again, did not hear a single original FO guy complain or even say the XRTA guys were getting screwed.

Well you must've had your earplugs in, or you just heard only what you wanted to. Many of us said you guys were getting hosed in the whole re-organization crap.

The RTA guys were supposed to suffer in silence cause the FO guys and girls were ascendant. Let's see if the original FO boys can take a butt buffing without squealing.

First of all, it was far from silence. Second, you are an extremely bitter and vindictive pilot, aren't you? If many people think like you, the us-vs-them thing is going to get way out of hand.

You seem to have this thing for screwing the FO pilots at any cost. Not getting any at home?



All the FO pilots, voice your opinion on this issue to management. You can sure bet that many of the RTA pilots are. Ask around in OCC. It was pretty obvious last week in there that there is a lot of grumbling on this, and several other issues, by many RTA pilots.

I'm sure management knows that reorganizing the seniority list by DOH would be a sure fire way to get a Union on property immediately. Many RTA pilots are already for it - and something like this would cause most FO pilots to be for it, as well.

 

[Aspiring to be]

”I went from 240s to 460s...”

GooseHZ;


I would like to ask you a question. Using your numbers old of 240 and new of 460 I do not see how you can say you lost ground in the merger. It is my understanding that there were more RTA pilots than FO pilots. Even take away the date of hire and if you just merged one for one or on a equal percentage basis then you should have a new seniority number of at least 480. How did you lose? I guess the FO guys use that new math to figure they lost ground. Just think that if you double the number of pilots (and you more than doubled) and you retain your relative seniority (I am talking about a % basis, which is the only way you could ever determine if you lost or gain). Just looking at your numbers you moved up in relative seniority not down. You should be closer to the left seat and not further away. The numbers will not compute the way you are trying to state your case. If you take into account that the RTA pilots had a higher average date of hire I would say that the RTA guys got a double screwing. I do not believe that the first FO pilot lost relative seniority. I do believe that most if not all RTA pilots’ lost relative seniority.

 

[Aspiring to be]

FracPilot ;

You talk about a union if you are affected in a negative way but you care not about the negative treatment of many of the RTA guys. What gives with people like you? Do you not believe in fair and equal treatment? Sounds like youi are the bitter one.

 

[FracPilot]

You talk about a union if you are affected in a negative way but you care not about the negative treatment of many of the RTA guys. What gives with people like you? Do you not believe in fair and equal treatment?

Funny that somebody that claims to have nothing at stake is getting so involved in an issue that doesn't involve them. I do not for a second believe you are who you claim to be, but I will answer your questions anyways.

Yes, if the seniority changes and I get bumped out of my aircraft by a former RTA pilot I will be upset. They had 3 CL601s. If they are allowed to take the seat that I have been in since well before the merger - a seat which they would never have had a chance at to begin with at their original company - is it "fair and equal treatment"? Not in my opinion. If anything were to happen with the seniority list, it should be split back into two separate lists and maintained that way. Who loses then?

Sounds like youi are the bitter one.

Not at all. Just realistic. Did I say that I would be for a Union if things change? No. I said MOST would. I think I am in a position to have some idea how it would affect the majority of the pilot group.

The way you speak of the seniority issue, you seem to have been involved in the whole thing when it was voted on and such. Still want to claim that you have nothing at stake on the issue?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go do something productive to make up for the colossal waste of time involved in replying to you.

 

[GooseHZ]

Fuzzy math

Aspiring,

Ok what you belive and what you know......what do you know?

240 in a list of 520 (i think)

now im 460 out of 903.

HS-125 PIC was held by 180

240-180=60 OLD

now HS-125 PIC is held by 250 (give or take)

460-250=210 NEW

i had 60 spots to go with about 20 or so HS-125s not too bad
Now i have 210 spots to go with what about 45 HS-125s?
the way i see it i got the short end.....just like alot of other pilots. i think some chages need to be made....lets make it fair. But dont preach to me how much better off i am and how all the others got the shaft. All your post did was cry and b1tch about how BAD it is for RTA pilots....well.....do you have any suggestions on how to fix it....or is posting what you "think" or what "should be" all you have to say?


Fly safe!