Ricci is out at FLOPS!!

[Grim Reaper]

GooseHZ.

Yeah, I'm pissed, real pissed. I work with you FO guys cause I have to, not cause I want to. I got screwed bad by KING RICCI. I did not like it then and I do not like it now.

Are the XRTA guys complaining to the NEW CEO about how they were treated during the takeover? You Bet. Not only are they complaining to the new CEO of Flight Options, they are complaining to the CEO of MOTHER RAYTHEON. Will that change anything: No.

Will the seniority list change again. UNLIKELY, in fact, it is not even possible based on numbers.

At the time the FO TAKEOVER of RTA was announced in DEC 2001, there were more RTA pilots than FO Pilots. 35 plus RTA pilots left RTA prior to the TAKEOVER. So, Dispite what many think, at the time of the TAKEOVER, there were more pilots of Flight Options origin than of RTA origin. Since the TAKEOVER, as many as 50 former RTA types have parted company with Flight Options for one reason or another. A simple majority vote among the pilot force will preclude any alteration of the seniority list. That is the hard truth.

What is possible is an alteration of PIC vs SIC positions with pay protection. That may happen sooner than you think.

 

[GooseHZ]

wow

Grim,


man you are so very bitter. i sorry we "FO guys" make you so sick.
We the pilots did nothing to you.If so please feel free to find a new place to work. Or why dont you help out and work to make this a better place to work. No matter what you and your IBT buds say Options is a great place to work.


Fly safe....and take a pill grim.

 

[vixin]

Cant we all just get along?

I am in agreement with the options pilots. Grimm why dont you be part of the solution instead of the problem. Ill bet you are a charm to fly with if the other guy is an options pilot. There are many things that arent fair in life, but you have to be the one to take action to improve things. Come up with a solution that will be good for the majority afterall you are supposed to be working towards the same goal.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Hey Grim, you bitter old man, if this company is wrecking your life so bad, why don't you resign, like your RTA buddies did prior to the MERGER. That way happy junior guys like me can move up that seniority list!! I'd be willing to bet everyone junior to you would love to see you leave. It would make all of our lives a little better. You suck.

 

[Aspiring to be]

GooseHZ,

Please think hard and tell me how you say you added about 25 Hawkers and the bottom PIC number dropped by 10. 240 to 250. Could it be that the bottom PIC on the FO Hawker was a little out of seniority. The number of spots have nothing to do with anything other than just a number. Your time to check out by seniority entitlement was not effected by the merger. You doubled the number of pilots; you doubled the number of aircraft. If your seniority number doubled and it should have then you lost zip.

The problem has been an increase of time to check-out and that is caused by the recession etc. If the company continue to grow as it had in the past then the check out time would not have been effected. The average check out time at EJA has increased also due to a little slower pace of growth.

For the check out time not to be affected then you would have to continue at the same percentage increase which would require more and more aircraft to be sold each year. Over a period of time it would take a very big increase in numbers to keep everything the same.

I have no idea what the saturation point is for the fractional business, I have heard numbers like 3 to 4 thousand aircraft. At some point it will be difficult to continue to grow. Those that will be hired then will have a long time before than will be able to fly as PIC. At some point it could come down to retirements to make room for promotion. Promotion based upon retiring pilots is a very slow method.

 

[GooseHZ]

???

Yes some PIC where out of order....from BOTH Sen Lists....some RAT pilot froget that thier list was not all that fair either. Thats why some where displaced when FLOPS took a look at the RTA list. Is it fair that the FO pilots where not displaced. Not at all.I think it should br fixed.


As far as my numbers go....i got them from the POSTED list on our website......

"I have no idea what the saturation point is for the fractional business"...your right you dont. And why do you care?


Fly safe

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Aspiring,

You sure have a deep interest in the frax business, Flight Options in particular. You still haven't mentioned why you give a rat's a$$ about our company. Because you know a couple of people who fly here? I know a couple of people that fly at United, and a couple who fly at American, but you don't see me trying to solve their problems, or even bring them to light. Maybe you could give an explanation, and I don't want to hear your former RTA pilot friends used as scapegoats.

 

[Aspiring to be]

I have several very good friends at FLOPS, all came over with RTA. One was illegally terminated by FLOPS because of his involvement in the union effort at RTA. As you know a lawsuit has been started in their behalf by the IBT.

I do think that the RTA pilots took it in the shorts on the merged seniority list. From most of the post that I read that comes from ex FLOPS many wanted the RTA pilots put on the bottom of the list. Many pilots wanted to keep the RTA pilots away from any bigger equipment. Many denied that Raytheon had merged with FLOPS and retained a 49.9% ownership. Many denied or ignored the fact that Raytheon had loaned FLOPS money without which they would have probably folded.

I see most FLOPS pilots as looking after their own interest. Since the takeover of FLOPS by Raytheon a few posters are saying they are for fair and equal treatment but I really do not see it in their post. It appears to me that FLOPS pilots have blinders and have tunnel vision. Maybe it has something to do with those gosh awful ties you wear. The RTA pilots lost there Raytheon retirement when some were just days away from being vested. No the RTA pilots lost a lot and the FLOPS pilots gained. The FLOPS pilots gained by their seniority. The FLOPS gained by having much newer and better maintained aircraft. I know most at FLOPS would say that is not so but I would bet if you asked any bystander and gave them all the facts I am sure they would agree.

I do not like FLOPS for what they have done to my friend. I have seen his suffering and I really suffer with him. I feel that in the end he and the others will win the legal battle and will be compensated for there suffering and their illegal termination. I do applaud the changes that have taken place at FLOPS since Raytheon has taken control and I hope for future changes. I hope to see my friend back where he belongs. I hope that FLOPS or whatever the new name might be to be a success and for people to build a good career and life there. Yes due to our many conversations with my friend I have the opinion that the ex RTA pilots got the short end of the stick in many ways. Every fact that I have seen confirms that. Many of the facts confirm in my mind at least that some of the pilots of FLOPS have refused to see past their noses.

I have time on my hands due my health. I was working for a fractional operator. I try not to get involved but when I see some things I feel that I must respond. I understand aviation and the issues that you and every pilot must face. I do believe that I understand fairness and I will continue to speak out for fairness.

 

[Aspiring to be]

GooseHZ,


I have been told that on many occasions when pilots were hired they put the higher time or more experienced in the jets. This was not always the case but many times you were assigned an airplane based on your experienced level.

I guess at RTA there was one pay for all equipment and the rub was that some of the King Air pilots were in the King Air due to their lack of experience but the check out time was much less. The next effect was that many times the less experienced pilot and the more junior pilot was receiving PIC pay when those more experience and senior were paid as SIC. I do believe that this was one of the reasons that the union effort was started at RTA. The reverse of that is that you had some junior people flying the Hawker when the senior pilot might be stuck in the Beech jet.

I doubt if many of the RTA pilots complained about the change of equipment due to proper seniority entitlement. I do believe that many complained that the pilots of FLOPS were not affected and their out of seniority equipment or seat was not being corrected. Hence this is one of the reasons that you were close to a PIC in the Hawker as you have complained before.

 

[FracPilot]

Aspiring,

With all your babble, it is now 100% obvious that you are one of the former RTA pilots that was terminated. Not only do you push the union drive any chance you get, but your posts are almost identical to some that have been posted by some of the terminated and their IBT cohorts. You have exhibited very specific knowledge about one of the three types of aircraft that RTA operated, info that you would not have known without having an aircraft checklist of AFM in your hands.

For you to know all that you do, you 1) spend all day every day poring over every message on the RTA/IBT board, 2) speak to your "friends" that are from RTA 5-8 hours a day, nearly every day, 3) are a disgruntled, former RTA pilot involved with the IBT union push, or 4) are a current Flight Options pilot that is involved with the IBT. The psychobabble they teach you guys is always the same and never changes. Maybe if you guys didn't all say the same thing over and over it wouldnt look so orchestrated.

 

[Aspiring to be]

"You have exhibited very specific knowledge about one of the three types of aircraft that RTA operated, info that you would not have known without having an aircraft checklist of AFM in your hands. "
_________________________________________________


FracPilot,

Not sure what you are talking about. What specific knowledge are you talking about? I know a little about a lot of aircraft from large to small.

Your items:

1. to much time on my hands, I do spend a little time looking over the post, keeps me in-touch.

2. I speak with my friend almost everyday he is home and sometimes when he is on the road.

3. NO

4. NO

I really do not mean to affend anyone. Sorry that you take it that way.

 

[FracPilot]

Not sure what you are talking about. What specific knowledge are you talking about? I know a little about a lot of aircraft from large to small.

Cut and pasted from a message dated Jan 10, 2003:

If you look at the numbers say for a Hawker, landing wt. 21000, standard day, sea level, calm winds the landing distance is 2473, landing field dry is 4121, landing field wet is 4740. You can almost land the Hawker on a dry runway of 5000 feet and landing weight of 21000 lbs and never use breaks.

Pretty specific numbers. Also, in one of your other posts back in Nov, you were asking about NJA interview schedules. Which frac is it you worked for? It must not have been NJA, you claim it was not RTA or FO, so it must have been Flex or CS. So which was it?

 

[FracPilot]

Not offended

I really do not mean to affend anyone. Sorry that you take it that way.

Missed this part. I don't take offense to some nameless, faceless person spewing BS on the internet. I do wonder why you must claim to be somebody you are not. Why not just admit who you are, and your true motives?

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Hel! FracPilot, I guess I was a few hours too late, you took the words right out of my mouth!!! I'd be willing to bet Aspiring is one of the grumpy old turds listed on the lawsuit by the former RTA pilots who were "wrongfully terminated" by Options. His friends he speaks so highly of are probably the other folks listed. And the ones on the road he talks to regularly? The former RTA folks out there pushing the IBT. And time on his hands due to his health? I think not. The writing is on the wall. Bummer it took a couple of days to dig through his shat. Sorry Aspiring, you'll never be seen in our God-awful ties again. Thanks for playing though.

 

[Aspiring to be]

FracPilot,

The numbers are specific. My friend gave me a disk with all the performance data. He was flying the Hawker. The program is a good program that allows you to figure date easily. I have never worked for FLOPS; I use to work for a small local fractional and 135 operator flying Lears.

AS you know I wrote that in response to a poster that was stating the great danger and the required runway when landing without anti-skid. I felt like the post was misleading and was full of bad information. As I stated then a normal landing other than no anti-skid on a dry runway should not be considered as a big deal. How many times have you had the anti-skid to activate on landing on a dry runway?

Making statements that go against what I believe and know can provoke a response from me. If I can find the facts I do not mind doing a little checking to see that what I write is as correct as I know how to make it. .

 

[Aspiring to be]

He has the clap,

One of my friends as I have stated was one of those that was wrongfully terminated. He is on the road as he is now working for another fractional, the one that works with a contract. The same fractional that many have left FLOPS to go to work for. I have never had a tie from FLOPS.

I have tried not to bad mouth FLOPS other than the way they have treated my friend and others. I will post when someone like you calls me down or makes what I believe to be a false statement.

I must conclude from your statement that you do not believe that FLOPS “wrongfully terminated” some of the RTA pilots. Could it be that you just do not care, after all you were not affected?

 

[Dep676]

He is on the road as he is now working for another fractional, the one that works with a contract.

You are so wrong they might have had a contract. They don't have one yet. Thay may still have the IBT and sending dues in. No contract yet. It hasn't been ratified yet. So therefore they are working without a contract. MAYBE by the 2-year mark they might have one again. I stress MAYBE.

So tell us why your "friend" is part of the law suit if he doesn't want to come back. Just shows what kind of cry babies there are out there that need a union. So they can b!tch about what color there plane or tie is.

 

[Aspiring to be]

Dep676,

You are so wrong; ask an EJA pilot if they are operating under a contract. EJA has a contract, one that is now being negotiated for change but the contract remains in force. You must be very young and without much experience. A contract has an amendable date but it does not expire. What ever you stress means little, you have very limited knowledge about such matters.

Again your post is without mature thought or knowledge. I doubt that he would want to go back to FLOPS but who knows. He was very senor at RTA and could decide he would like to go back. He and the others have lost a great deal. They have lost income; they have lost in their marketability.

Can you imagine trying to get a job and having to tell that you were terminated? They are not cry babies my friend they are real men. They exposed themselves for the betterment of their fellow pilots. Their motives were and are for fair and equal treatment. Yes they seek justices along with lost pay and punitive damage.

I think that maybe you are the cry baby and are afraid of fair and equal treatment. You like some of the other posters seem to accept the “wrongful terminations” and even to justify the act. Why?

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Aspiring,

Enlighten me exactly why your friend got fired. I'm sure he doesn't have a note in his file saying he was fired for supporting a union. My understanding (might not be the case with your friend) is some of the pilots in question were sent out to fly with check airmen. When these pilots in question did not fly within the ATP standards to which we are held, they were fired. Like I said, that might only cover one or two of the pilots, I don't know the full story on all of them. Good luck in front of the judge telling him/her you lost your job because you can no longer maintain ATP standards.

It was my understanding they were all fired for a good reason, not being union pushers. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Aspiring to be]

He has the clap,

You are very wrong!!

It is my understanding that the first four or five guys were fired for the phony reason that they did not interact satisfactory with FLOPS management during the three day? indoc. I think four never flew a trip with FLOPS. I am sure that it had nothing to do with their flying skills and you should be ashamed to even think or say such a thing. I was told that all had an excellent training record and all line checks were satisfactory. I do not know if any pilots from RTA were terminated due to lack of ability. I doubt that but it is a possibility. I have heard of witch hunts by some of the check airman but I think they came well after the merger.

The ones names in the law suit were all fired for the same phony reason. Talk with the ex RTA pilots and ask them. Some might oppose their stand but I doubt that you can find any to fault their flying skills. They were all known by every pilot at RTA as being in support for the union. There names were used in the post. Only the ones that supported the union were terminated in such a manner. I think they were all experience pilots flying the Hawker. I doubt that you can find one ex RTA pilot that thinks they were terminated for any reason other than their attempt to organize.