Republic orders 40 C-Series Aircraft

[rogerwilcoout]

Hmmmm, well I think some of us got into it back when regional only made up about 20-30 percent of the flying. You flew for a regional 5 years, upgraded and moved to the majors.

However now, Regionals are flying over 50% of the domestic flying! Now they are flying 100 seat Jets! So that nice job at the majors has come few and far between.

I love flying! I love my job (I wouldn't like to deal with some of the crap that comes along with it however)... But it pains many to watch people taxi'ing around in 100 seat jets that pay crap. But thats how the industry has turned and like I said..... It is what it is!!

lol my regional is better than your regional syndrome eh? Lol Who would have thought a regional pilot would be bangin on another regional pilot? Lol This is amusing. YOU are no better than any of the other regional pilots. The reason YOU have a job flying your little jet is because the mainline pilot groups didn't have the balls to hold onto scope. Oh, and because of their selfish demands. YOU are flying a regional jet because management does not want to pay a good wage to a mainline guy. YOU are just as much the problem in this industry as any other regional pilot. YOU sir, and the other message board posters that attack other regionals, don't realize what you are talking about.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If those who hate it so much would actually follow thru and get out of this business, then the supply/demand equation would shift and the pay would come up...Problem solved...That was easy!

 

[CitationLover]

The 10's, 20's, and 30's were dominated by people who wanted to prove themselves as daredevils and popularized flying. These folks quickly realized they could make a ton of money by flying people around. And they did. They developed the airline business and were extremely well compensated for the responsibility of transporting passengers in those "new fangled" airplanes. Airline pilots of the 50's, 60's and 70's reaped a level of respect and compensation rivaled only by doctors. You may like to romanticize the early aviation pioneers who loved to fly but most of them parlayed that into successful careers.

The GOVERNMENT built up the majors to what they are today. They initially funded them through their early stages as mail carriers. They approved the who got what routes through an old buddy network that continued into the modern 70's CAB with the mechanism of simply increasing ticket prices to cover the ever increasing variable costs. This is the airline pilots fundamental problem: THERE HAS NEVER BEEN FREE MARKET COMPETITION IN THIS BUSINESS PERIOD.

All of our wages are based back to government subsidies. Through anti-trust and bankruptcy protection the GOVERNMENT STILL SUBSIDIZES the airline business. This last point absolutely KILLS our negotiating position whatsoever. Management knows they can always allow the taxpayers/creditors to fall on the sword and declare Ch. 11 and wipe their contractual obligations clean (including pilots contracts). Our ONLY leverage HAS NEVER BEEN USED and NEVER WILL BE USED as our "national" union simply will not authorize a nationwide strike (in it's own words: the nuclear option). All of the perks of a "national" union are nice (lower group insurance rates, medical advice, safety analysis, etc), but in terms of negotiating power we are nowhere close to a "national" union.

 

[cale42]

The GOVERNMENT built up the majors to what they are today. They initially funded them through their early stages as mail carriers. They approved the who got what routes through an old buddy network that continued into the modern 70's CAB with the mechanism of simply increasing ticket prices to cover the ever increasing variable costs. This is the airline pilots fundamental problem: THERE HAS NEVER BEEN FREE MARKET COMPETITION IN THIS BUSINESS PERIOD.

All of our wages are based back to government subsidies. Through anti-trust and bankruptcy protection the GOVERNMENT STILL SUBSIDIZES the airline business. This last point absolutely KILLS our negotiating position whatsoever. Management knows they can always allow the taxpayers/creditors to fall on the sword and declare Ch. 11 and wipe their contractual obligations clean (including pilots contracts). Our ONLY leverage HAS NEVER BEEN USED and NEVER WILL BE USED as our "national" union simply will not authorize a nationwide strike (in it's own words: the nuclear option). All of the perks of a "national" union are nice (lower group insurance rates, medical advice, safety analysis, etc), but in terms of negotiating power we are nowhere close to a "national" union.

And there never will be true free market competition in this business. As long as the guvmint regulates who can fly the planes who can wrench on the planes and what the safety standards are it isn't a free market. I would argue that the airlines are in fact the most regulated industry out there. The guvmint lays down everything about how the business must work except pricing. In that lies the sticking point. Just regulate the pricing and be done with it.

 

[flyboyzii]

lol my regional is better than your regional syndrome eh? Lol Who would have thought a regional pilot would be bangin on another regional pilot? Lol This is amusing. YOU are no better than any of the other regional pilots. The reason YOU have a job flying your little jet is because the mainline pilot groups didn't have the balls to hold onto scope. Oh, and because of their selfish demands. YOU are flying a regional jet because management does not want to pay a good wage to a mainline guy. YOU are just as much the problem in this industry as any other regional pilot. YOU sir, and the other message board posters that attack other regionals, don't realize what you are talking about.

Perfect explanation......end of story..Great Post

 

[WSurf]

lol my regional is better than your regional syndrome eh? Lol Who would have thought a regional pilot would be bangin on another regional pilot? Lol This is amusing. YOU are no better than any of the other regional pilots. The reason YOU have a job flying your little jet is because the mainline pilot groups didn't have the balls to hold onto scope. Oh, and because of their selfish demands. YOU are flying a regional jet because management does not want to pay a good wage to a mainline guy. YOU are just as much the problem in this industry as any other regional pilot. YOU sir, and the other message board posters that attack other regionals, don't realize what you are talking about.

ehhhhhhh???? Man I wish I flew a EMB170 instead of My dash 8! Hmmmm, would that be a paycut for me?

 

[Whydoitry]

ehhhhhhh???? Man I wish I flew a EMB170 instead of My dash 8! Hmmmm, would that be a paycut for me?

Probably.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

ehhhhhhh???? Man I wish I flew a EMB170 instead of My dash 8! Hmmmm, would that be a paycut for me?

This is EXACTLY my point. You think you are being paid well. Management wants you to think that. Truth is the reason you are flying them is because YOU are willing to fly that dash at a much lower cost than an mainline guy would. AND to top it off you, somehow, think that because you are getting paid a certain amount that anyone not making as much as you is somehow lowering the bar. Maybe your regional airline is better than mine, maybe not. But, really, who are you fooling? Management smiles in the mirror shaving because they have you telling the tale of how much better you have it versus another regional, all the while, you are making peanuts in comparison to what every pilot should make. Really, though, if you don't understand this by now, you never will.

 

[CitationLover]

This is EXACTLY my point. You think you are being paid well. Management wants you to think that. Truth is the reason you are flying them is because YOU are willing to fly that dash at a much lower cost than an mainline guy would. AND to top it off you, somehow, think that because you are getting paid a certain amount that anyone not making as much as you is somehow lowering the bar. Maybe your regional airline is better than mine, maybe not. But, really, who are you fooling? Management smiles in the mirror shaving because they have you telling the tale of how much better you have it versus another regional, all the while, you are making peanuts in comparison to what every pilot should make. Really, though, if you don't understand this by now, you never will.

The difference is you're speaking in hypotheticals versus what the RAH group just DID IN REAL LIFE (ie 50% DROP in rates taking flying from a mainline group).

 

[kf4amu]

This is EXACTLY my point. You think you are being paid well.

Where the hell did he say that? Nowhere. He'd say the exact opposite, which makes his point even more valid...that you have idiots flying large aircraft for less money than other pilots flying aircraft 1/3 the size!

If you're making crap money flying a 37 seater, and someone makes crappier money flying a 100 seater, I think it's ok to point that out.

 

[Popeye0537]

The difference is you're speaking in hypotheticals versus what the RAH group just DID IN REAL LIFE (ie 50% DROP in rates taking flying from a mainline group).

Midwest was never Mainline, you need to get over yourself. That's like saying SunCountry is mainline! You were a regional airline that flew boeing's version of a regional aircraft.

 

[jravi8tor]

Midwest was never Mainline, you need to get over yourself. That's like saying SunCountry is mainline! You were a regional airline that flew boeing's version of a regional aircraft.

To clarify your statement oh wise one. MIDWEST was a non-legacy carrier using mainline equipment and we also operated our own regional brand. So yes, we were MAINLINE!

 

[WSurf]

Where the hell did he say that? Nowhere. He'd say the exact opposite, which makes his point even more valid...that you have idiots flying large aircraft for less money than other pilots flying aircraft 1/3 the size!

If you're making crap money flying a 37 seater, and someone makes crappier money flying a 100 seater, I think it's ok to point that out.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!!!

 

[trainer8]

I love flying! I love my job (I wouldn't like to deal with some of the crap that comes along with it however)... But it pains many to watch people taxi'ing around in 100 seat jets that pay crap. But thats how the industry has turned and like I said..... It is what it is!!

But Surf, how did that happen? Chautauqua and Mesa just didn't magically appear with jets. Your union, ALPA, with eyes wide open to the AAA MEC's intent, signed on the line and gave them the scope relief in 1995 (AAA Rakesh? Remember that name? Babbit? Remember that one?) Again in 2003 with the increase to 86 seats. Seems to me that PDT, along with ALG were thrown under the bus back then. But, you need to claim some ownership to your "pain" if you are still paying dues. I despise the pat rates at RAH, but, as a dues paying member, I'm involved trying to affect change. It may take some time, but I'm optimistic.

I responded earlier with the "you...too?" because it seems unlike you to be a conformer and jump on the Republic bashing threads...kinda surprised me.

T8

 

[trainer8]

ehhhhhhh???? Man I wish I flew a EMB170 instead of My dash 8! Hmmmm, would that be a paycut for me?

Yes, especially with your CBA provisions.

 

[trainer8]

The difference is you're speaking in hypotheticals versus what the RAH group just DID IN REAL LIFE (ie 50% DROP in rates taking flying from a mainline group).

Here we go again. It's all the pilot's fault. Those mean RAH pilots.

 

[trainer8]

Where the hell did he say that? Nowhere. He'd say the exact opposite, which makes his point even more valid...that you have idiots flying large aircraft for less money than other pilots flying aircraft 1/3 the size!

If you're making crap money flying a 37 seater, and someone makes crappier money flying a 100 seater, I think it's ok to point that out.

I think it is ok and fair to point out that it is PDT's 4th or 5th contract compared to the Chautauqua contract that was ratified in 2003 and presently 5 carriers that represent RAH negotiate are negotiating a new contract. I wouldn't shoot the horse, yet. It's about to get interesting with the seniority arbitration and contract amalgamations, etc.

 

[kf4amu]

I think it is ok and fair to point out that it is PDT's 4th or 5th contract compared to the Chautauqua contract that was ratified in 2003 and presently 5 carriers that represent RAH negotiate are negotiating a new contract. I wouldn't shoot the horse, yet. It's about to get interesting with the seniority arbitration and contract amalgamations, etc.

I don't think it should matter which contract it was. If pilots would demand industry standard work rules and pay at the first contract (I realize it's not easy), you'd never get regional airlines that expand so quickly because they are so cheap.

But the pilots at those regionals are only there for the quick upgrade, so they don't mind. Unfortunately they bring down the whole industry's pay rates. The "quick upgrade" is a cancer, and the excuse that the airline is too young is bogus.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

Here we go again. It's all the pilot's fault. Those mean RAH pilots.

Hey, I already admitted it was all my fault.

 

[trainer8]

I don't think it should matter which contract it was. If pilots would demand industry standard work rules and pay at the first contract (I realize it's not easy), you'd never get regional airlines that expand so quickly because they are so cheap.

But the pilots at those regionals are only there for the quick upgrade, so they don't mind. Unfortunately they bring down the whole industry's pay rates. The "quick upgrade" is a cancer, and the excuse that the airline is too young is bogus.

No, it is not that easy. Just ask the boys at PSA what happened in 2002 to get jets on their property.

 

[pipejockey]

Just like you did with the 190's. Try being realistic man; you're working for the #1 company that is ruining the industry. I don't know how you sleep at night.

It's quite simple really. By the time they get done jacking off to all the pictures of their company's E170-190-195 and now the C-Series of jets, they are so exhausted they have no choice but to sleep. Has anyone noticed that their Midwest branded planes don't even have an..."operated by repukelick airlines" painted anywhere on it in small print at least? Their passengers are totally oblivious to the fact that they are not being flown by an experienced, well trained and adequately compensated cockpit crew, but in fact are actually being flown by FO's with less than 1000 hours and CA's with not much more.

 

[kf4amu]

No, it is not that easy. Just ask the boys at PSA what happened in 2002 to get jets on their property.

I've only heard the PDT version, and it's not pretty.

 

[b82rez]

^^^ He didn't mention his total time there genius

 

[Bluestreak]

You're right. I just read between the lines.

But surely anyone who paid to fly the right seat in a Metro at Ameriflight should have the credibility to tell off the Republic pilots. :erm:

Pipejockey= pwned! Bah ! Mr. Buy-A-Job talks about inexperienced crews..What a joke.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Holy ********************!!!! Pipejockey, you have lost what shred of credibility you once had.

 

[MATHEWS]

Nice detective work pilotman700!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMFAO. I bet he doesn't reply to this thread again!!!!!!

 

[pipejockey]

I bet he doesn't reply to this thread again!!!!!!

Are you kidding me? Why the h*ll not? A 7 year old post? Let me repeat that for some of the slooower folks here like the self proclaimed sausage king who instead is probably nothing more than the king of fudge packing. A 7 YEAR OLD POST! A sub 1000 hour new hire you say? I didn't mention all the useless single engine Cessna time did I? I only mentioned the Multi and turbine time I had. Flying around the pattern for a thousand hours in a 172 is not going to better help you handle an airline job. I indeed had over 1000 hours.

And as far as Ameriflight...how in the hell is serving as an SIC in a metro for a part 135 cargo operation 10 years ago considered "buying a job"? Hey fudge packer, you can't buy a job that doesn't exist. The plane went whether the sic showed up or not. And with congress thankfully trying to get new hire minimums at 1500 total and an ATP, programs like Ameriflight's may be the best way to get new guys the airline experience necessary to not only get the 1500 but to get the real world experience in all kinds of weather and icing and environments they will encounter when they get to the regionals.

But seeing as how simple minded you are, I imagine that you would rather they drone around the sky in severe clear in a 172 or light twin for 1500 hours. Now go get a life because you surely have absolutely none if you can scrounge through 7 YEAR OLD POSTS! You bottom feeder!!

 

[pipejockey]

Oh and I might also add that 7 YEARS AGO, Chiiitaqua was not republic that I am aware of and was just another run of the mill RJ operator flying 50 seats or less. Now they consist of what was something like 3 different airlines flying 170-190 series of aircraft for 50 seat pay and who are getting 130 seaters which I am sure they will fly for cheap, not to mention how they put Midwest out of business and will destroy Frontier as well. What do you think those 130 seaters are going to be doing?

If you want to talk about buying a job, you best talk to all your fine colleagues who lined up around the block up until the late 90's or so, to actually get a job as a REQUIRED crewmember for just about all the main regionals of the time.

 

[pipejockey]

Considering Republic hasn't hired in almost 2 years, I doubt any FO has less than 1000 hours. And I think I read their Captain minumums were over 3000 hours.

Really? Then they must pull that bullsh*t where they count every 1 hour of sic at Repukelick, as 2 hours total for the purposes of meeting the 3,000 hour upgrade mins. Their junior CA's have been on the job 3 years. And with all the 500 hour or less new hires the regionals were hiring, most would need more than 3 years to get the 3,000 hours. And how would you explain how they pulled off getting 3,000 hours back when upgrades were 1 year?

 

[BoilerUP]

Really? Then they must pull that bullsh*t where they count every 1 hour of sic at Repukelick, as 2 hours total for the purposes of meeting the 3,000 hour upgrade mins. Their junior CA's have been on the job 3 years. And with all the 500 hour or less new hires the regionals were hiring, most would need more than 3 years to get the 3,000 hours. And how would you explain how they pulled off getting 3,000 hours back when upgrades were 1 year?

RAH had hiring minimums of 1500/300 (with the exception of Delta Connection Academy, who needed only 800tt) until sometime in Q2'2007...and many pilots hired at that time had flown for places like CorpEx, Piedmont, Great Lakes, PSA, etc and didn't have any problem meeting the 1500/300 minimums or having enough time to upgrade to captain.