Republic orders 40 C-Series Aircraft

[BoilerUP]

I wish people did their research a little better when they chose this profession.

I agree...the concept of due diligence seems to be lost on many in this industry, which is littered with the carnage of unmet (and probably to a large degree, unrealistic) expectations. That's especially dumbfounding when you consider the amount of information available about this industry as a whole, and specific companies, circulating on the interwebs for at least a decade now.

That said, I don't work because I like to fly - I work because I have bills to pay. I'd imagine most feel the same way. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy my job immensely and hope the feeling I get when climbing into a clear morning sky from an undercast never goes away...but I'll seek employment outside driving airplanes when I can no longer meet my financial obligations and goals. Sure I'd miss flying but I've worked in a cubicle before and it didn't "zap my soul" or any other hyperbolic nonsense some pilots seem to use when describing a quote-unquote "normal job".

I'm not going to bankrupt myself or my family just because "I love my job"...there's too many starving artists in this industry already.

 

[WSurf]

Sorry it's not working out for you guys, I got into this career to fly and I knew the risks and costs. I wish people did their research a little better when they chose this profession. I also wish that they got into it for the flying and not the money and days off. Oh well, live and learn. Hopefully it get's better for us all.

Hmmmm, well I think some of us got into it back when regional only made up about 20-30 percent of the flying. You flew for a regional 5 years, upgraded and moved to the majors.

However now, Regionals are flying over 50% of the domestic flying! Now they are flying 100 seat Jets! So that nice job at the majors has come few and far between.

I love flying! I love my job (I wouldn't like to deal with some of the crap that comes along with it however)... But it pains many to watch people taxi'ing around in 100 seat jets that pay crap. But thats how the industry has turned and like I said..... It is what it is!!

 

[SennaP1]

That said, I don't work because I like to fly - I work because I have bills to pay. I'd imagine most feel the same way. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy my job.... Sure I'd miss flying but I've worked in a cubicle before and it didn't "zap my soul" or any other hyperbolic nonsense some pilots seem to use when describing a quote-unquote "normal job".

I'm not going to bankrupt myself or my family just because "I love my job"...there's too many starving artists in this industry already.

Nicely said. I feel the same way. This LOVE/LIVE to Fly nonsense is just that. Nonsense. If someone really thinks flying is the greatest pleasure you will ever get out of this world. Well, maybe. Just not for me.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I do understand there are extenuating circumstances like WSurf described where people got into aviation a while back and expected to be out of the regionals, pre-911 era. I just don't get how kids now get these loans and know that they are not going to be paid enough to make it up. The only way these kids should do it is if they love to fly. Most don't, and find out that it's not what they thought it was going to be, and they are pissed. Why should they be when they full well knew or should have known what they were getting into? We are covering well treaded territory with this offshoot discussion now, but I also wonder how many people would be in this profession if you had to mend your own wings with cloth from your own shirt, rebuild your own engine, sleep under your wing, and give rides for 50 cents to be able to afford gas. Those pilots in the beginning truly loved flying and they did it at all cost. They paved the way eventually for all that we have today. We are spoiled.

 

[cale42]

Sorry it's not working out for you guys, I got into this career to fly and I knew the risks and costs. I wish people did their research a little better when they chose this profession. I also wish that they got into it for the flying and not the money and days off. Oh well, live and learn. Hopefully it get's better for us all.

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, deep breath, no no no no no no no no no pause NO.

It is this exact attitude that is ruining aviation. Loving to fly should be no 9 on a top ten list for this profession. Having a good professional career with professional pay and professional treatment for SAFELY transporting lives in a pressurized tube 8 miles above the earth should encompass 1 to 8. If people would stop willing to fly and start willing to be treated like a professional the airlines wouldn't be the mess they are. Management figured out about 4 seconds after de-regulation that pilots loved to fly and have been beating them with that stick ever since.

Don't even start with me on research. I did it. All of it. Knew exactly what to expect. Scrimped to pay for flight school with minimal debt, knowing that I had 2 years of instructing and several years as a regional FO ahead of me. Did all that. Had 5 straight years of less than 25K on my W-2. Finally made it to captain. I actually made it right? Nope, airline went bankrupt, pay cuts were forced on me, airline got bought by other airline, SLI a mess, and my airline is being shut down because people(apparently) don't like props. What are my options?? Only one.. start back over at my third regional for 18K a year. Or leave aviation.

When I did my research as you like to term it in 01-02 I knew Sept 11 would have an impact on the industry. However at the time the majors were still on good contracts the regionals were strictly limited to 50 seats or less. Unless your research was a sh!t ton better than my it didn't indicate that the majors would shed 10 thousand plus pilots jobs, and outsource every single bit of their 100 seat and less flying. It didn't indicate oil would be 160 bucks a barrel and ruin a fledgling recovery. It didn't discuss the term virtual airline. It didn't show that multiple regionals would also shed thousands of jobs. It didn't indicate the worst economy in eight decades.

If your research did indicate all that, then I have some work for you, because I sure didn't know those things 9 years ago.

Before I can even contemplate staying in this industry I would like your research answers on the following questions. Will the majors EVER hire again(I think this is a more realistic question than people want to acknowledge)? Will any regional make it(statement redacted per Boilers post below.) Or if I spend the next 35 years in the industry will start over as a regional FO making 18K a year 14 more times?

Just some things to think about before you question peoples research and say they should just love to fly.

Oh and by the way I would consider myself to have been one of the lucky ones.. many many good people F'ed way harder than myself.

cale

 

[BoilerUP]

(anyone else notice AA farming out their regional work to other carriers because Eagle is too expensive?)

Hate to interrupt a good rant, but that's not accurate.

AA has a contract with Chautauqua that they inherited when they bought TWA. AA is effectively shrinking the once-prominent STL hub to nothingness, and needed to shift those CHQ airplanes somewhere they could actually be used. THAT is why CHQ is "stealing" Eagle CHQ flying.

AA isn't "farming out their regional work" because "Eagle is too expensive" - they're doing it because they're contractually bound to put those CHQ airplanes to work...for at least a few more years. Once that contract is up, I wouldn't expect to see solid blue chickens for much longer.

Then again, AMR could always terminate the CHQ contract and face the penalties, namely absorbing those airplanes from RAH and paying back RAH for every penny in lease payments/debt service they've made on those 140s since they've been in AX service.

 

[cale42]

boiler..

I can't contest what your saying, that may be true.. but a few questions then.

1. Why are the Eagle pilots grieving it, if they know it is a contractual obligation?

2. Is it not still paying for cheaper labor? They were happy to inherit that contract and put it to use.

3. Does it not continue to damage career expectations at Eagle, one of the few career regionals out there?

 

[BoilerUP]

1. Why are the Eagle pilots grieving it, if they know it is a contractual obligation?

Because they have their own contractual language with AMR that is completely independent of CHQ/RAH's contract with AMR.

2. Is it not still paying for cheaper labor? They were happy to inherit that contract and put it to use.

Is the labor at CHQ cheaper than Eagle? Yeah, I'm sure it is...but I dunno how "happy" they were to inherit the CHQ and Trans States TWE contracts from TWA. Again, the penalties for early termination for the CHQ capacity lift agreement are stiff (AMR absorbs the airplanes and must pay RAH back for every penny they've ever paid in debt service or lease payments while they were used in AX operation...which for the 140s was probably their whole time).

3. Does it not continue to damage career expectations at Eagle, one of the few career regionals out there?

Is Eagle shrinking because of CHQ's shift to ORD? I don't think so, and I believe Eagle is getting more CRJ-700s...and wouldn't that be damaging the career expectations at American?

 

[cale42]

Alright you win Boiler. I like to rant but I insist on it being factual. I made an unwise assumption about why CHQ got that flying and not Eagle, presented with the facts I stand corrected and will edit my post.

No doubt Eagle new CR7's damage career expectations at American. That isn't a hard example to show. I was trying to show that the regionals are undercutting each other as aggressively as ever and there may soon be no such thing as a career regional.

 

[Captain Morgan]

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, deep breath, no no no no no no no no no pause NO.

It is this exact attitude that is ruining aviation. Loving to fly should be no 9 on a top ten list for this profession. Having a good professional career with professional pay and professional treatment for SAFELY transporting lives in a pressurized tube 8 miles above the earth should encompass 1 to 8. If people would stop willing to fly and start willing to be treated like a professional the airlines wouldn't be the mess they are. Management figured out about 4 seconds after de-regulation that pilots loved to fly and have been beating them with that stick ever since.

Don't even start with me on research. I did it. All of it. Knew exactly what to expect. Scrimped to pay for flight school with minimal debt, knowing that I had 2 years of instructing and several years as a regional FO ahead of me. Did all that. Had 5 straight years of less than 25K on my W-2. Finally made it to captain. I actually made it right? Nope, airline went bankrupt, pay cuts were forced on me, airline got bought by other airline, SLI a mess, and my airline is being shut down because people(apparently) don't like props. What are my options?? Only one.. start back over at my third regional for 18K a year. Or leave aviation.

When I did my research as you like to term it in 01-02 I knew Sept 11 would have an impact on the industry. However at the time the majors were still on good contracts the regionals were strictly limited to 50 seats or less. Unless your research was a sh!t ton better than my it didn't indicate that the majors would shed 10 thousand plus pilots jobs, and outsource every single bit of their 100 seat and less flying. It didn't indicate oil would be 160 bucks a barrel and ruin a fledgling recovery. It didn't discuss the term virtual airline. It didn't show that multiple regionals would also shed thousands of jobs. It didn't indicate the worst economy in eight decades.

If your research did indicate all that, then I have some work for you, because I sure didn't know those things 9 years ago.

Before I can even contemplate staying in this industry I would like your research answers on the following questions. Will the majors EVER hire again(I think this is a more realistic question than people want to acknowledge)? Will any regional make it(statement redacted per Boilers post below.) Or if I spend the next 35 years in the industry will start over as a regional FO making 18K a year 14 more times?

Just some things to think about before you question peoples research and say they should just love to fly.

Oh and by the way I would consider myself to have been one of the lucky ones.. many many good people F'ed way harder than myself.

cale

The love of flying was here long before people like you jumped onto the bandwagon to reap the rewards of what was established by the very people you hate. Now you think about that the next time you piss on aviation and the people who love it.

 

[cale42]

The love of flying was here long before people like you jumped onto the bandwagon to reap the rewards of what was established by the very people you hate. Now you think about that the next time you piss on aviation and the people who love it.

The 10's, 20's, and 30's were dominated by people who wanted to prove themselves as daredevils and popularized flying. These folks quickly realized they could make a ton of money by flying people around. And they did. They developed the airline business and were extremely well compensated for the responsibility of transporting passengers in those "new fangled" airplanes. Airline pilots of the 50's, 60's and 70's reaped a level of respect and compensation rivaled only by doctors. You may like to romanticize the early aviation pioneers who loved to fly but most of them parlayed that into successful careers.

I'm not pissing on aviation as a whole or a love of flying. It is alive and well in the US at hundreds of small airports and in things like the sport pilot license.

Do not for one second though try and replace the enormous responsibility of being a professional pilot with the love of aviation. I LOVE being airborne, however I PROFESSIONALLY ACCEPT the responsibility of transporting a scared to death passenger safely to their destination. There is a huge difference.

 

[ePilot22]

It is called financing. It's the same way most of us bought a house or a car. Almost all of RAH's aircraft are owned, but financed where the loans are secured by the aircraft. RAH has very little unsecured debt.

Do you actually think airlines write checks for billions of dollars?

Did UND teach you all that while you were financing your future, cause you're soooo smart. Do you make payments on your house and car or does the bank just accept your good looks?




eP.

 

[The Drizzle]

Did UND teach you all that while you were financing your future, cause you're soooo smart. Do you make payments on your house and car or does the bank just accept your good looks?




eP.

Why argue the point when you can just insult? Great job junior.

 

[Captain Morgan]

The 10's, 20's, and 30's were dominated by people who wanted to prove themselves as daredevils and popularized flying. These folks quickly realized they could make a ton of money by flying people around. And they did. They developed the airline business and were extremely well compensated for the responsibility of transporting passengers in those "new fangled" airplanes. Airline pilots of the 50's, 60's and 70's reaped a level of respect and compensation rivaled only by doctors. You may like to romanticize the early aviation pioneers who loved to fly but most of them parlayed that into successful careers.

I'm not pissing on aviation as a whole or a love of flying. It is alive and well in the US at hundreds of small airports and in things like the sport pilot license.

Do not for one second though try and replace the enormous responsibility of being a professional pilot with the love of aviation. I LOVE being airborne, however I PROFESSIONALLY ACCEPT the responsibility of transporting a scared to death passenger safely to their destination. There is a huge difference.

I love aviation AND I want a bigger paycheck, but guess what I'm not going to whine and cry about it like a lot of people on this board. This is the life I chose and I love my job. This doesn't mean I'm not going to fight for a better work contract/atmosphere. It isn't going to be done by name calling and in-fighting between groups. I also don't like people pointing fingers at people like me who actually try to make the best of what has been thrown to them instead of moping head down and grimacing through the terminal and on these boards. That's the point I'm trying to get across.

 

[ePilot22]

Why argue the point when you can just insult? Great job junior.

What was the point?




eP.