Republic/Frontier/Midwest SLI Arbitration?

[CrownandCoke]

F9 certainly does, a flow wouldn't be a bad idea. The YX pilots were sold down the river before RAH showed up but I agree, they deserve much better as they have been hosed the worst with the current situation. How exactly does Lynx deserve better? It was a regional, a WORSE regional than even native RAH was. I have a feeling that Lynx pilots, CA's specifically, will come out waaaay ahead. Why do I believe that? I don't think that the SLI arbitrator is going to take away anyone's seat which means the Lynx CA's, nearly all of which are junior to many of the native RAH FO's, are going to be remaining in the left seat, only now it will be into an ERJ of some type at a significantly better pay rate than they could have ever expected at Lynx.

So yes, F9 and YX pilots deserve better. You got two out of three correct.

so one pilot group deserves to get screwed and bent over? Why? Because we are just "turboprop" pilots? We had a great company, pay notwithstanding. Great people, great pilots, great airplane, great CP. It was a great place to work. Pay was going to be improved.

In the end, I'm hoping this all works out for everyone. But I'm not holding my breath. I think in the end, only the Undercover Boss will win.

 

[Flying Illini]

so one pilot group deserves to get screwed and bent over? Why? Because we are just "turboprop" pilots? We had a great company, pay notwithstanding. Great people, great pilots, great airplane, great CP. It was a great place to work. Pay was going to be improved.

In the end, I'm hoping this all works out for everyone. But I'm not holding my breath. I think in the end, only the Undercover Boss will win.

I said nothing of the sort and who the "F" cares what type of equipment you fly?!?
I did ask you why you think the Lynx pilots deserve better. Better than what? There are several integrations taking place but I can break them down for you. Regional (you and me) and LCC (YX and F9). You clearly don't support a seat grab by native RAH (me either) but yet you group yourself (Lynx) in with the airline supposedly having their seats grabbed (F9).

 

[embraerjetpilot]

But usmc your missing one important thing and the only thing in our contract that's halfway right. We have a scope clause

 

[cale42]

F9 certainly does, a flow wouldn't be a bad idea. The YX pilots were sold down the river before RAH showed up but I agree, they deserve much better as they have been hosed the worst with the current situation. How exactly does Lynx deserve better? It was a regional, a WORSE regional than even native RAH was. I have a feeling that Lynx pilots, CA's specifically, will come out waaaay ahead. Why do I believe that? I don't think that the SLI arbitrator is going to take away anyone's seat which means the Lynx CA's, nearly all of which are junior to many of the native RAH FO's, are going to be remaining in the left seat, only now it will be into an ERJ of some type at a significantly better pay rate than they could have ever expected at Lynx.

So yes, F9 and YX pilots deserve better. You got two out of three correct.

While I hate to argue with a fellow Illini(ILL- screw OSU).. I take exception with the statement that Lynx was a "WORSE" regional. We had worse pay rates. We had better schedules, better work rules, and most importantly management that respected us. I will take that over a few bucks an hour any day of the week. However I will agree that we were a regional and should be integrated appropriately with the other regional(RAH). To say that many of our pilots were junior based simply on DOH is unfair though, as most had extensive other experience. We came to Lynx hoping for a great operation which for 3 years we got. And contrary to many rumors at the time of acquisition we were making money hand over fist and expected to retain our options.. I don't understand people who say we had "no career expectations".

And while I appreciate the optimism I don't think Lynx CA's or anyone else will come out as well as you think.

cale

 

[USMC319]

But usmc your missing one important thing and the only thing in our contract that's halfway right. We have a scope clause

embraerjetpilot,
I am aware of your scope clause and I agree it was a good thing to protect your group against a Gojet or Freedom situation. In otherwords, it was designed to not allow outsourcing of YOUR flying.

The problem is that it was not designed to take flying from others, especially flying in a different class and craft. It was not conceivable that a regional holding company would buy a mainline branded airline and that your scope would be used out of context to catapult your careers at the expense of the mainline pilots.

Its clear that Frontier Airlines is the future of RAH as it has been selected to be the platform going forward (live or die). Its what we brought to the table. We don't want anything except for what we already earned. We don't want anything you've got. We just don't want to have anything stolen from us either. That's why FAPA and Bedford want to keep things seperate at any cost.

 

[embraerjetpilot]

USMC Funny you mention Bedford..

Any thoughts on the facts that the 195s next year willl come with 118 seats while your 318s are going away with 120 seats? Not one bit. You and FAPA still fail to see the full potential of this management group. Sadly, I dont feel it will be too long till it happens.

 

[chqflyer]

USMC Funny you mention Bedford..

Any thoughts on the facts that the 195s next year willl come with 118 seats while your 318s are going away with 120 seats? Not one bit. You and FAPA still fail to see the full potential of this management group. Sadly, I dont feel it will be too long till it happens.

Why the ******************** would BB bring 195's into the mess if he has to defer 19 seats on them anyway? They are nothing more than a carrot to get the lifers to accept a 1-2 dollar an hour pay raise and maybe a 50 cent an hour raise for the first officers.

 

[RobCat]

embraerjetpilot,
I am aware of your scope clause and I agree it was a good thing to protect your group against a Gojet or Freedom situation. In otherwords, it was designed to not allow outsourcing of YOUR flying.

The problem is that it was not designed to take flying from others, especially flying in a different class and craft. It was not conceivable that a regional holding company would buy a mainline branded airline and that your scope would be used out of context to catapult your careers at the expense of the mainline pilots.

Its clear that Frontier Airlines is the future of RAH as it has been selected to be the platform going forward (live or die). Its what we brought to the table. We don't want anything except for what we already earned. We don't want anything you've got. We just don't want to have anything stolen from us either. That's why FAPA and Bedford want to keep things seperate at any cost.

Fair enough. What did RAH bring to the table? Seriously guys we all need to get over this, fast.

 

[embraerjetpilot]

And he would only be required to negotiate a new rate for the captains on this one.

 

[CrownandCoke]

And he would only be required to negotiate a new rate for the captains on this one.

and I'm sure the captains will be glad to accept 125 an hour, as long as they get to keep Denver

 

[USMC319]

Any thoughts on the facts that the 195s next year willl come with 118 seats while your 318s are going away with 120 seats? Not one bit. You and FAPA still fail to see the full potential of this management group. Sadly, I dont feel it will be too long till it happens.

We have 4 A-318s left. Go ahead and replace them with EMB-195s. We don't want to fly them for your rates. We have 10 A-320s coming and we know what our rate is for those. Our contract says Frontier pilots fly everything over 120,000 GTOW. This airline will have to grow with bigger mainline airplanes or ultimately it won't matter anyway. BTW, the 195s you speak of are replacing the little Embraers in your fleet not the Airbus. The A-318s were going away before RAH had anything to do with Frontier.

 

[BUDDHA145]

We have 4 A-318s left. Go ahead and replace them with EMB-195s. We don't want to fly them for your rates. We have 10 A-320s coming and we know what our rate is for those. Our contract says Frontier pilots fly everything over 120,000 GTOW. This airline will have to grow with bigger mainline airplanes or ultimately it won't matter anyway. BTW, the 195s you speak of are replacing the little Embraers in your fleet not the Airbus. The A-318s were going away before RAH had anything to do with Frontier.

You are correct!!! about the A/C and I/we don't want to fly does a/c at that current rate eather!!!! But then again no body cares what I say anyway.

 

[Bolo]

USMC319 has got mad game! Embraerjetpilot I am afraid that my boy is countering every post you have. You have not mentioned my post what BB wrote? What is up? You are losing your touch and your arguements.

 

[Flying Illini]

While I hate to argue with a fellow Illini(ILL- screw OSU).. I take exception with the statement that Lynx was a "WORSE" regional. We had worse pay rates. We had better schedules, better work rules, and most importantly management that respected us. I will take that over a few bucks an hour any day of the week. However I will agree that we were a regional and should be integrated appropriately with the other regional(RAH). To say that many of our pilots were junior based simply on DOH is unfair though, as most had extensive other experience. We came to Lynx hoping for a great operation which for 3 years we got. And contrary to many rumors at the time of acquisition we were making money hand over fist and expected to retain our options.. I don't understand people who say we had "no career expectations".

And while I appreciate the optimism I don't think Lynx CA's or anyone else will come out as well as you think.

cale

You're right, there is no such thing as a "good" regional so I was definitely wrong when I called Lynx a "worse" regional. They're all bad in their own ways!
I'm sure the Lynx pilots had other experience, so did most of the RAH pilots. As for career expectations, you are a regional, according to mainline pilots you had no career expectations. According to another regional, your career expectations were the same as our career expectations. Get in, upgrade, get out. At least those were my expectations.

Many of us at RAH want nothing to do with F9 and their airbuses (that they hold on such a high pedestal). Sure, some people now see the SLI as a distant chance that at some point, years down the road, they could fly an airbus. The majority of those people are the very senior people (or career changers) who have resigned themselves to flying at a regional forever. The only way they get to fly bigger a/c is if scope is relaxed further (please no!) at the majors and RAH wins an RFP, or by this acquisition of F9 by RAH.

Everyone else want to get past this dick-measuring contest that people are having, come together and get a bargaining agent in place and a new contract ironed out. We now have an airline that has ALL of the flying done in-house. From E135's through A320's. Let's keep it that way, it's unique in that sense.

 

[aewanabe]

The thing the F9 guys miss with the "seat grab" is that RAH's contract that forced the SLI does not allow/force a bump and flush. There will be some sort of fence, and in reality no current RAH guy will be able to bid a Bus slot without a vacancy. More than likely the arbitrator will put up some sort of fence saying a native RAH guy can't bid Bus captain until all the current Bus FOs have upgraded or had the opportunity.

In the meantime, what did you all expect IBT to propose? A staple of the pilots from the acquiring company, like FAPAs proposal?

 

[crashpad]

Anyone hear about BB possibly selling F9 to American in exchange for their Eagle Operations? That'd be a sweet deal with eagles flow-thru agreement.

 

[StaySeated]

Anyone hear about BB possibly selling F9 to American in exchange for their Eagle Operations? That'd be a sweet deal with eagles flow-thru agreement.

That would accomplish the exact opposite of what RAH is trying to do with the branded operation. RAH is moving away from Fee For Departure, for a very good reason. Selling the brand in exchange for more FFD, and a lot more 50 seaters, would not make sense.

 

[BUDDHA145]

Hey anything is possible!!! But didn't AA 4Q earnings where pritty bad!! Like -97 mil!! don't believe it till you read it or get the pink slip in the mail...

 

[Megalops]

Hey anything is possible!!! But didn't AA 4Q earnings where pritty bad!! Like -97 mil!! don't believe it till you read it or get the pink slip in the mail...

Www.engrish.com, check it out you'll love it.

 

[Axel]

His English is a lot better than my Spanish.