Republic/Frontier/Midwest SLI Arbitration?

[USMC319]

Cardinal was accurate in describing the F9 culture up through bankruptcy in April of 2008. I doubt there was an airline out there that could compare more favorably than Frontier on most levels. It was just a great place to work and evrybody was happy and proud to be there. I was even more impressed with our pilot group during BK when everyone on property stepped it up to save the airline. All hands on deck, and we succeeded when the experts said we would be long gone.

Post BK, RAH (Bedford) promised that we would be a stand alone airline and that we would continue to be "Frontier". To continue to build something that was pretty special in this otherwise whacked industry. Where the trouble and hence decline of the culture began was when the regional pilots of the other RAH subsidiaries tried (are trying) to do a seniority/seat grab from the Frontier pilots. By the account of some rumors, they may have some success in doing so and the decline will hasten. The only chance the Frontier culture has a chance in being restored is if either the mainline is sold off to another mainline carrier with similar culture or if the NMB determines that Frontier is in fact NOT a single transportation system with the RAH regionals.

So, thats why many of the F9 pilots think, retrospectively, that even the hose job that SWAPA offered us might be better than the doublecrossing that they are experiencing now at the hands of the RAH group.

 

[StaySeated]

Just to clean up a host of inaccuracies posted by HDA, and then supported by the unhappiest gent on the planet, Animal Tale.

There was a membership vote on establishing a furlough pilot fund. This vote was piggy backing on another vote, LOA 17, that included double digit pay cuts (first year FO's were excluded), downgrades, retirement cuts, and furloughs. No one was surprised when it did not pass. Regardless, FAPA established a voluntary fund, and tens of thousands of dollars were donated.

Sixty pilots were eventually furloughed, many of which actually began ground school AFTER we filed BK. Not one request for medical payment reimbursement was denied. Not one.

There was also a Voluntary Leave of Absence agreement. Over 60 pilots agreed to VLOA's, most of which traveled overseas to fly in Asia and various sandbox carriers. Had these 60 folks not taken VLOA's, another 60 would have been furloughed. The 60 VLOA's that returned from VLOA were senior to the folks that were furloughed, and they returned in seniority order. No one returned out of seniority, and no "back room" deals were struck.

The "SWAPA deal" has been covered ad nausem, and the open-time comment is nonsensical. Neither merit a response.

HDA also claims there was a relationship between first year pay and the DC plan. Again, this is not accurate. The DC Plan was negotiated as part of CBA 2007, in exchange for the ESOP. In retrospect, the gents that negotiated this exchange (one of them has been publicly fleeced on this thread) were geniuses. A year after the ratification of CBA 2007, the ESOP was worthless. Today, the DC plan contains millions of dollars of equity, and is completed funded by the company.

Cardinal's post sums it up perfectly. Sadly, those days are over.

 

[jacksjj]

when the regional pilots of the other RAH subsidiaries tried (are trying) to do a seniority/seat grab from the Frontier pilots.

This is completely false. The reference to seniority grabbing by the "regional pilots" may be because you feel superior to us, but whatever the reason it is out of our hands. Relax and stop trying to stir the pot. The "seat grab", as you call it, is completely fictional. I know ZERO RAH pilots that have said anything about flying a 'bus. Maybe you have, but every group has their small minority. I assure you, that is ours. The overwhelming majority of us, while speaking freely behind the closed doors of the flight deck, think you could not have been dealt any worse of a blow to your career. This place SUCKS, and Airbuses or not - we are leaving in droves. As a matter of fact, more pilots have left in the past 3 months than the last 3 years.

What you should be focusing on is the impending fight you have on your hands with management, not the pilot group. We have been through the ringer with these cronies, we know what we face, and we know that standing together is the only chance we possibly have to make any headway. The longer you stand reluctant to join us, the stronger WH and BB become.

 

[chqflyer]

This is completely false. The reference to seniority grabbing by the "regional pilots" may be because you feel superior to us, but whatever the reason it is out of our hands. Relax and stop trying to stir the pot. The "seat grab", as you call it, is completely fictional. I know ZERO RAH pilots that have said anything about flying a 'bus. Maybe you have, but every group has their small minority. I assure you, that is ours. The overwhelming majority of us, while speaking freely behind the closed doors of the flight deck, think you could not have been dealt any worse of a blow to your career. This place SUCKS, and Airbuses or not - we are leaving in droves. As a matter of fact, more pilots have left in the past 3 months than the last 3 years.
.

Don't ya think the IBT demanding the top 300 seniority spots and sticking our left seat occupants into the F9 captain list was a bit outlandish? That's about as brazen a seniority grab as you can get. We are regional pilots, NOT equals to mainline pilots. Try jumpseating on a few mainline flights and just observe the huge difference.

 

[The Drizzle]

Don't ya think the IBT demanding the top 300 seniority spots and sticking our left seat occupants into the F9 captain list was a bit outlandish? That's about as brazen a seniority grab as you can get. We are regional pilots, NOT equals to mainline pilots. Try jumpseating on a few mainline flights and just observe the huge difference.

I think you should seek professional help for your self-esteem problem. That said, the top 300 isn't about Airbus seats it's about protection from job loss as this place sinks faster than the Bismark. Remember who acquired who.

 

[Bolo]

Does the acquisition gives you the right to jump into the Airbus seats?
Just look at your Avatar and there is your answer!
Last time I looked around our pilot group not one pilot wants to go over to any of the RJ's.

 

[The Drizzle]

Does the acquisition gives you the right to jump into the Airbus seats?
Just look at your Avatar and there is your answer!
Last time I looked around our pilot group not one pilot wants to go over to any of the RJ's.

Nobody is jumping anywhere but off this ship. Do you really think the arbitrator is going to just dump the senior RAH daddies into the bus? Get real. Most of what is posted is hyperbole other than how badly BB and co treat their employees. It won't last long, I'd imagine. RAH likely can't afford to train replacements once that loud sucking sound gets going. They'll shrink to profitability! That always works.

I'll edit too bolo: Precedent usually has the acquiring party seeing some sort of windfall regardless of what the spirit of the law is. We aren't greedily grabbing for your seats, we are trying to defend whats left of a tattered and raped contract. Ours says anything owned by RAH gets flown by our list. I expect you to fight as hard for what's in your contract until we have a joint agreement.

Also, I love to poke fun around here too but going for a lame jab at my avatar doesn't do much for you or your case as a superior being.

 

[Bolo]

One thing we do agree on is the lame Avatar. In my eyes inappropriate to say the least!

 

[The Drizzle]

For what it's worth, I AM sorry that you guys are caught up in all this. Being snapped up by BB and friends is the kiss of death for any kind of positive workplace culture.

What you call a seat grab, again, is our last defense. I think BB might have actually thought we'd have a good case on the scope violation or he'd never have gone against his word to keep you separate. The FFD is still a predictable cash cow and he must be very wary to put it in danger.

What do I know though, I'm just a pilot.

 

[Bolo]

At the end of the day it does not matter what you and I think. Arbitrator, STS, fence all will have to happen before anything is implemented.