Republic/Frontier/Midwest SLI Arbitration?

[rogerwilcoout]

Well, here is the cool thing. Nobody says that you high and mighty Frontier pilots HAVE to stay here. Leave if it is so beneath you to work here with us lowly regional pilots! There is the door and, remember, don't let it hit you in the azz on the way out! Never seen more of a self serving whining bunch of people before in my life!

 

[AnimalTale]

Being an outsider, I have to ask: seniority grab by the treacherous regional pilots? Didn't F9 get bought (at auction)? Also, not being privvy to the actual 100 million integration proposals for this integration did F9 not suggest what amounted to a staple of the company that bought them?

It's all a little confusing. You got bought, yet the company that bought you is beneath you. Doesn't RAH have pilots on their list that have been there over 20 years? They certainly deserve to be placed well below any existing F9 pilot (especially since they got bought) just because they're "regional" pilots. I'm sure they have no experience too.

All your attitudes are unbelieveable. Am I wrong, did RAH not acquire F9 at auction? Please explain how it's a seniority grab when you were aquired?

Just curious. To me, your ego's are a little overwhelming.

Ill help you understand. When one gets hungry and doesnt eat, one dies. So one goes to the grocery store to buy food and eat. Somebody bought somebody to be more competitive, RAH needed F9.

It was a nice party. No one on either side of Management or the Union were influenced in anyway at the party or by the party.

Once (if) you gain some experience and lose some of your us-against-them angst, you'll realize that there is a time to flight for the contract, the polices, the grievances, the terminations, etc. and at the end of the day both Union and Management have a job to do.

Once that job is done, reasonable people on both sides recognize that we're all in this together, respect some of the people on either side and relationships grow out of mutual respect.

I've had shouting matches with Labor Relations over the years, there have been periods that we didn't even speak in passing, but a week or month later had lunch with them (we trade off on who buys).

It actually pays off to not hate each other. Of course that was the old Frontier. I have no idea how these relations will go with Ford & Harrison, BB and especially WH. I'm afraid my expectations are not high.

You get this experience from volunteering, working for the Union and the pilots or becoming an elected BoD member, not standing on the sidelines screaming when you have no knowledge or experience. Or even worse screaming when none of it affects you any longer.

I dont agree with you. This is why we are here today. It has never been about "hate". Hate is a strong word and nobody hates anybody, relax. Respect Managements' position, let them run a company, while labor protects labors best interest. Do not co-mingle on days off, all meetings need to be accounted for. Leisure activities and events will effect outcomes, whether planned or not. Rah is not "old" f9.

CYA

 

[Megalops]

Well, here is the cool thing. Nobody says that you high and mighty Frontier pilots HAVE to stay here. Leave if it is so beneath you to work here with us lowly regional pilots! There is the door and, remember, don't let it hit you in the azz on the way out! Never seen more of a self serving whining bunch of people before in my life!

We are not "here" we are at Frontier, you are at Repchqshutam. Wanting to keep what we have is hardly "whining" , although it would serve your pursuits for us to just leave, (Also be a man spell out ass) Are we whining because we want to be left alone? Or that we are not handing over our seats fast enough? Self serving because were still here? Or Your still in a 145/170/190/ plastic helicopter? Self serving because "one voice, one list, one union, despite a catchy mantra just does not resonate with us? From what I've seen of Republics operation at Denver your showing yourself to the door just fine.

 

[markminus100]

Its OK to be confused markminus100. Yes the holding company (RAH)bought a major airline (F9). The holding company also owns a few FFD regional airlines that fly contract for some other mainline carriers. Its not a matter whether the regional pilots are beneath us, its just that they are working in a different segment of the industry and happen to have the same parent company. Don't take what we have and we won't take what you have. It terms of the auction process, Bedford said Frontier would successfully exit BK with or without RAH, so forget that weak arguement.

Actually, there is no argument. You got bought, whether you like it or not. The fact of the matter is that you got aquired by a different company. Who cares if the business that bought you was in car sales, you still got bought, at an auction. You are part of their business and there's not a thing you can do about it: you got bought.

Bolo, thanks for the PM. You not only proved that you in fact have an abnormally large ego (for a "mainline" carrier - really, let's be honest), but that you also have the maturity of a child.

 

[Flying Illini]

This whole argument boils down to carreer expectations. Everyone here at RAH is here for one reason. You get abused for a few years in exchange for 1000 TPIC then move on to a real airline. We really have no right to butt ourselves into a mainline seniority list regardless of who bought who.

And that is the problem with this purchase. Now we have faaar more pilots (really only CA's) who are willing to hang out for a while longer to see what happens. That really hurts the career expectations of the FO's as upgrade times begin to stretch towards LCC upgrade times (while being stuck with REALLY poor pay/workrules). The traditional "get in, upgrade, get out" model has been disrupted. I really don't care how the list shakes out just so long as there are giant fences between the two groups, mainline: YX and F9, and FFD: RW, RP, S5.

 

[chqflyer]

And that is the problem with this purchase. Now we have faaar more pilots (really only CA's) who are willing to hang out for a while longer to see what happens. That really hurts the career expectations of the FO's as upgrade times begin to stretch towards LCC upgrade times (while being stuck with REALLY poor pay/workrules). The traditional "get in, upgrade, get out" model has been disrupted. I really don't care how the list shakes out just so long as there are giant fences between the two groups, mainline: YX and F9, and FFD: RW, RP, S5.

You're right. The dynamics of how things are supposed to work have been disrupted by this unholy mess. We have become just another stagnant regional with Mesa work rules. Hopefully the hiring at the majors starts before we begin the massive furloughs as we lose our FFD contracts.

 

[Megalops]

The whole IBT 300 senior guys at the top appears to be a double edged sword. If that happens senior FO's on the bus will then be able to jump in their seats when they leave for an Airbus seat, ( it's only fair right?) Massive stagnation and the inability to get the coveted 1000 turbine pic to go elsewhere. Maybe IBT should rethink that, but then again it's all about the senior guys right? Besides their not going to listen to you anyway.

 

[dlzav8tr]

From what i am hearing senior fo's on the bus will not be able to hold the left seat on any RAH aircraft ( possibly a 145 back east somewhere ). They are looking at the right seat of an rj.

 

[USMC319]

Actually, there is no argument. You got bought, whether you like it or not. The fact of the matter is that you got aquired by a different company. Who cares if the business that bought you was in car sales, you still got bought, at an auction. You are part of their business and there's not a thing you can do about it: you got bought.
QUOTE]

So young fella, if we follow your logic, is it conceivable that if Thrifty Car Rental bought Frontier instead of Republic Holding Company, their shuttlebus drivers could displace the Frontier pilots once they got "qualified"? Oh, but only if it was in their contract. Wow, after reviewing what I intended to be a silly analogy, I guess I've answered my own question.

Have fun with the career we built for you. You remind me of the little rich girl on Willy Wanka's Chocolate Factory. The one that turned blue and got really fat because she got everything she wanted without working for it or deserving it.

disclaimer: This post is intended for markminus100 and those that hold his beliefs, not to the majority of the RAH pilots that I've found to be an overall pretty good bunch of pilots whom agree that infiltrating Frontier's list would be a travesty.

 

[Bolo]

A lot of you at RAH forget to mention the letter that BB wrote on 4/24/10. Yes, BB's words exactly. I will spare you the entire letter but this sums up WHY RAH purchased F9. Markminus 100 and others spare me the "WE BOUGHT YOU ARGUEMENT!"
The 1300 hundred pilots that we potentially saved from being furloughed and the entire RAH group are the ones that want our seats on the Airbus. Come on over, but start where each one us at F9 started!

"In closing, I want to talk about one last hot-button issue. I've been getting some heat from some folks at Shuttle and Chautauqua who are feeling a little disenfranchised lately. They read a lot of news about the brand business, but nothing about what is going on with our CPA business.
First, the sad truth is there is nothing going on with the CPA business. There are no new RFPs on the street and no one actively looking for new or replacement RJ flying. Frankly, none of the major airlines is adding much of any new capacity this summer. And any increase in flying is coming from increased aircraft utilization, not from new aircraft in service. We are seeing some increase in the daily utilization of our E-jet fleet this summer by Delta, United and US Airways. We are even seeing some E145 block hour increases with Continental and US Airways, but again no one is looking for a new aircraft order. They are just flying what they are already paying us for a few more hours each month. The main reason we took the leap in to the brand business was precisely because we did not see any growth opportunities for RJ flying with our major airline partners. In fact, we feel there is a much greater risk that contracts will not be renewed as the requirement for RJ, especially 50-seat aircraft, is shrinking. Had we not made the acquisitions we did last year, we would not have 15 E190s in operation; we would not have a home for 16 E170s or a home for 12 small RJs we are flying in Milwaukee. Add all that up and we would have 43 fewer aircraft in service at Republic. You take those 43 aircraft out of the picture and we would have had to furlough more than 1,300 Republic employees. I hope this makes it crystal clear that our focus on the brand side of the business has been every bit as impactful for keeping Republic employees on the payroll as it has for Midwest and Frontier employees."

 

[Megalops]

From what i am hearing senior fo's on the bus will not be able to hold the left seat on any RAH aircraft ( possibly a 145 back east somewhere ). They are looking at the right seat of an rj.

Nope, you get their seat, they get yours.

 

[embraerjetpilot]

DLSAV...that hardly sounds realistic.

And a car company shuttle bus drivers would not have had any scope.

I once again think that you people are trying to stir a pot that does not need stiring and wasting a whole lot of your energy.

I havent heard anyone talking or dreaming of flying an airbus. What I do hear is a lot of people upset that you guys would have the nerve to try to staple us to the bottom of the list. They are all proposals and hopefully it will come out somewhere in the middle. The top 300 thing is pretty much everyone thats been there almost ten years. They are lifers and there is very little attrition in those ranks even when the economy was good.

Please take a look at the history of bargaining at CHQ/Republic that is floating around the Denver crewroom...You'll soon realize how much we all need to stick together.

 

[USMC319]

What I do hear is a lot of people upset that you guys would have the nerve to try to staple us to the bottom of the list. They are all proposals and hopefully it will come out somewhere in the middle. The top 300 thing is pretty much everyone thats been there almost ten years. QUOTE]

I guess by that logic the Compass pilots should have had relative seniority integration into the Delta list since they were owned by the same holding company. Same would be true of the old Continental Express and Mesaba etc...

Why not just do a flow like the rest of the industry has always done it. It would have served the same purpose in the end, and would have not created the ill will. I can promise you I will not take your RJ jobs if mainline shrinks.

 

[CrownandCoke]

see, this all proves my earlier point that RAH pilots are self-absorbed losers who want nothing more then to put Frontier pilots on the street and get paid sub-par wages to fly an Airbus. No RAH pilot has yet said "you know what Frontier, Midwest, and Lynx guys? You're right! You deserve better."

 

[Flying Illini]

see, this all proves my earlier point that RAH pilots are self-absorbed losers who want nothing more then to put Frontier pilots on the street and get paid sub-par wages to fly an Airbus. No RAH pilot has yet said "you know what Frontier, Midwest, and Lynx guys? You're right! You deserve better."

F9 certainly does, a flow wouldn't be a bad idea. The YX pilots were sold down the river before RAH showed up but I agree, they deserve much better as they have been hosed the worst with the current situation. How exactly does Lynx deserve better? It was a regional, a WORSE regional than even native RAH was. I have a feeling that Lynx pilots, CA's specifically, will come out waaaay ahead. Why do I believe that? I don't think that the SLI arbitrator is going to take away anyone's seat which means the Lynx CA's, nearly all of which are junior to many of the native RAH FO's, are going to be remaining in the left seat, only now it will be into an ERJ of some type at a significantly better pay rate than they could have ever expected at Lynx.

So yes, F9 and YX pilots deserve better. You got two out of three correct.