Reliability Gulf - Dassault ?

[sleepy]

"Believe me it's me, it's every mfr . and selling the first fly by wire corporate jets is a tough sale"

This technology has been is Dassault fighter jets for many years. It will be an easy transfer to the 7X. The same cannot be said for Gulfstream, as they don't have a fighter program to transfer technology from like Dassault has.

 

[fokkerjet]

"Believe me it's me, it's every mfr . and selling the first fly by wire corporate jets is a tough sale"

This technology has been is Dassault fighter jets for many years. It will be an easy transfer to the 7X. The same cannot be said for Gulfstream, as they don't have a fighter program to transfer technology from like Dassault has.

Not Gulfstream, but "mother" is General Dynamics; now they have way more experience than Dassault.

 

[mzaharis]

Not Gulfstream, but "mother" is General Dynamics; now they have way more experience than Dassault.

Not anymore - they sold their fighter division (Ft. Worth) - the one that would presumably have all their FBW-experienced engineers - to Lockheed Martin.

Of course, they could always hire the "Skunk Works" as a technology contractor - don't think that they have a product line conflict there.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

FBW Systems aren't build by GD or LM, NO, the "owner" (developer) of that technology is HONEYWELL, GD, LM, Emb (the big WSCofD), and Bomardier, buids the airframe, not subsystems.

Just Look at Google ("Honeywell Fly By Wire"), their system is more less the same in the B777, BC17, EMB-170,....

Different case is Dassault, because their FBW system its "own".

Thales is currently developing a FBW system for an a/c currently in production ( a Global derivate?).

Also is know the Gulfstream's interest on that technology (from Honeywell).

 

[mzaharis]

FBW Systems aren't build by GD or LM, NO, the "owner" (developer) of that technology is HONEYWELL, GD, LM, Emb (the big WSCofD), and Bomardier, buids the airframe, not subsystems.

Good point, although the integration responsibility and definition of control laws would be mostly on the airframe manufacturer's side.

 

[fokkerjet]

Not anymore - they sold their fighter division (Ft. Worth) - the one that would presumably have all their FBW-experienced engineers - to Lockheed Martin.
QUOTE]

Thanks for that update.......I must have missed that little bit of info awhile back. Does General Dynamics build airplanes anymore; Gulfstream excluded of course?

 

[GVFlyer]

Fbw

The Big G has a functioning FBW prototype. Gulfstream's strength in developing new technology lies in the engineers and pilots of Flight Test. Pilots in Flight Test include the Chief Test Pilot for the B-2 Bomber, the Chief Test pilot for the B-1 Bomber, and test pilots from the F-16 and F-14 programs. It was Gary Freeman, recipient of the Kinchlow Award, one of the F-14 guys that developed the HUD/EVS for the Gulfstream (not Glenn Connor as has been so widely reported). One of the F-16 guys wrote the algorythms for the GV Stall Warning Computer which allows for the current expanded CG range and wide range of completion options.

When Lockheed Martin was Gulfstream's risk sharing partner for the Super Sonic Business Jet, it was Gulfstream Flight Test that was tasked with developmental test - not Lockheed.

GV







~

 

[G4G5]

I just had EVS installed and, had to go up with a GAC flt test pilot. One of the nicest and sharpest pilots I have ever flown with.


As far as FBW, you can say what you want about the technology already being established, yada yada. All I know is the guy in the back said "NO WAY, for $40 million let someone else work all the bugs out"

 

[mzaharis]

Thanks for that update.......I must have missed that little bit of info awhile back. Does General Dynamics build airplanes anymore; Gulfstream excluded of course?

None that I know of, since LMCO purchased GD's Aeronautics division in 1992, I think. They're still in ground military vehicles, ships, and mostly military-oriented Information Technology, in addition to Gulfstream.

 

[fokkerjet]

The Big G has a functioning FBW prototype.

~

Would that be currently installed in an airplane in flight test? The new G600/650 with P&W engines

 

[AA717driver]

Would that be currently installed in an airplane in flight test? The new G600/650 with P&W engines

And I heard Gulfstream leased some hanger space up at Area 51... TC

 

[tony77]

Yeah i have heard a few people mentioning this F5X, but not any good sources....

 

[Senior_Citizen]

The F5X is a rumour based on the industry practicles.

 

[sleepy]

"Also is impressive the Airborne Support of Gulfstream, but Dassalts customers also said they have the best and most flexible warranty (possible Dassault will offer an airborne support program)."

Why does Gulfstream have such a program, and Dassault doesn't? Dassault doesn't need one, Gulfstream does.

 

[AA717driver]

Why does Gulfstream have such a program, and Dassault doesn't? Dassault doesn't need one, Gulfstream does.

So, Falcons never break in the middle of nowhere? I'll be the first to admit that the 550 was pushed out too soon and has issues. But no plane is so flawless that you NEVER get stuck somewhere.TC

 

[G100driver]

"Also is impressive the Airborne Support of Gulfstream, but Dassalts customers also said they have the best and most flexible warranty (possible Dassault will offer an airborne support program)."

Why does Gulfstream have such a program, and Dassault doesn't? Dassault doesn't need one, Gulfstream does.

As big as a fan as I am of Dassault, and I am, this is one area that they truly lack in.

Dassault labor warranty - 6 months (except the 7X - 5years)
Breakdown on a Friday night and cannot get FEDEX until Monday afternoon ... guess what, you are F%$#ked.

 

[G4G5]

It's a typical Dassault problem.

I lost a windshield on a DA2000 once while going into San Juan on a Friday evening. Called tech support and discovered that their were noe to be had in the US and that they would have to send one from France. Needless to say we did not make our MONDAY departure. They counter to countered one on AirFrance but by the time the PRC dried............

I lost one on a Gulfstream last fall, the aircraft was up the next day.

For some reason they seem to feel that it is "impossible" to break one of their aircraft. I love their design but once they closed down TEB and tried to move everything to LIT, product support went down the tubes.

 

[Speedmach5]

9 years flying G4s and never a cx trip due to aircraft mx.
Can't go wrong with a Gulfstream!

 

[sleepy]

Honestly, they all break sometimes. I just have not ever had a Falcon strand me anywhere for maintenance. I have never flow a Gulfstream, so i really don't know. But is always fun to just have a silly argument about it.

 

[semperfido]

Gulfstream definitely more responsive. Although with this G550 they can't always help- especially when you are in Mumbai India with a MAU3b failed. Not a pretty sight at O'dark thirty.