Regional Pilots Kill 228 People by Pulling up After Stall Warning

[dojetdriver]

For one, the reaction to the stall warning horn by the PF in both accidents was similar, TOGA power and pitch up. From this report, we know the stall warning horn was on from 2 hr 10min 51sec to at least 2 hr 11min 40 sec when the Captain returned to flightdeck and the within a few seconds the speeds became invalid due to measured speeds being under 60 kts

Along the lines of what you posted earlier, we may have to wait till an official document comes out. Also, something may have been lost in the translation.

Due to all the design "logic", the AF PF may have been "requesting" TOGA power by shoving the TL's though the stop, if they spooled down to idle and were waiting for an official command by the pilot "synch", it wouldn't have done them any good. In the "alpha prot" they should have, but again, who knows what the airplane was really doing?

Again, an official investigation should reveal what was going on.

 

[flyboyike]

And skill and performance aren't rigorously checked periodically at your airline? They are at mine, and no slackers a let slip through the cracks...

Really?

 

[Buzo]

Along the lines of what you posted earlier, we may have to wait till an official document comes out. Also, something may have been lost in the translation.

Due to all the design "logic", the AF PF may have been "requesting" TOGA power by shoving the TL's though the stop, if they spooled down to idle and were waiting for an official command by the pilot "synch", it wouldn't have done them any good. In the "alpha prot" they should have, but again, who knows what the airplane was really doing?

Again, an official investigation should reveal what was going on.

TOGA is TOGA no matter what, when the thrust levers are in the TOGA detent, that is what you get. Alpha Prot does not exist in Alternate law, it is a Normal law protection.

 

[dojetdriver]

TOGA is TOGA no matter what, when the thrust levers are in the TOGA detent, that is what you get. Alpha Prot does not exist in Alternate law, it is a Normal law protection.

Still begs the question, the article says the pilots selected TOGA. Is there an official source document that confirms that the airplane was indeed in TOGA power?

 

[777forever]

TOGA is TOGA no matter what, when the thrust levers are in the TOGA detent, that is what you get. Alpha Prot does not exist in Alternate law, it is a Normal law protection.

Correct. The BEA report states that engine thrust worked properly and responded to pilot input.

 

[777forever]

Still begs the question, the article says the pilots selected TOGA. Is there an official source document that confirms that the airplane was indeed in TOGA power?

The BEA preliminary report.

 

[Buzo]

Still begs the question, the article says the pilots selected TOGA. Is there an official source document that confirms that the airplane was indeed in TOGA power?

The TOGA detent is supposed to override the autothrust system and give you TOGA power. I don't whether the particular aircraft was in TOGA.

 

[dojetdriver]

The BEA preliminary report.

Correct. The BEA report states that engine thrust worked properly and responded to pilot input.

You also said the following;

One issue I do see with the report is it states pitch and AOA was 16 degrees. That makes no sense. Probably a French to English translation issue as the original report was in french.

Are you cherry picking what to believe as fact from the report?

The TOGA detent is supposed to override the autothrust system and give you TOGA power. I don't whether the particular aircraft was in TOGA.

And that's all I'm getting at. Who the hell knows what the plane was doing with all the component failures they were experiencing.

 

[wmuflyguy]

At 2 h 10 min 51 , the stall warning was triggered again. The thrust levers were positioned
in the TO/GA detent and the PF maintained nose-up inputs. The recorded angle of attack, of
around 6 degrees at the triggering of the stall warning, continued to increase. The trimmable
horizontal stabilizer (THS) passed from 3 to 13 degrees nose-up in about 1 minute and
remained in the latter position until the end of the flight.
Around fifteen seconds later, the speed displayed on the ISIS increased sharply towards 185 kt;
it was then consistent with the other recorded speed. The PF continued to make nose-up
inputs. The airplane’s altitude reached its maximum of about 38,000 ft, its pitch attitude and
angle of attack being 16 degrees.

At around 2 h 11 min 40 , the Captain re-entered the cockpit. During the following seconds,
all of the recorded speeds became invalid and the stall warning stopped. The altitude was then about 35,000 ft, the angle of attack exceeded 40 degrees and the vertical
speed was about -10,000 ft/min. The airplane’s pitch attitude did not exceed 15 degrees
and the engines’ N1’s were close to 100%. The airplane was subject to roll oscillations that
sometimes reached 40 degrees. The PF made an input on the sidestick to the left and nose-up
stops, which lasted about 30 seconds.

At 2 h 12 min 02, the PF said "I don’t have any more indications", and the PNF said "we have
no valid indications". At that moment, the thrust levers were in the IDLE detent and the
engines’ N1’s were at 55%. Around fifteen seconds later, the PF made pitch-down inputs. In
the following moments, the angle of attack decreased, the speeds became valid again and the
stall warning sounded again.

It sounds like they were working.

 

[dojetdriver]

The thrust levers were positioned
in the TO/GA detent

For the Airbus guys, is that because that's where they had been since TO?

engines’ N1’s were close to 100%

But can it be confirmed that it was pilot selected, or airplane selected?

At that moment, the thrust levers were in the IDLE detent and the
engines’ N1’s were at 55%

I'm not trying to argue with you guys. Again, all I'm saying is who the hell knows what went on prior to the engines coming back to 55% along with a corresponding TL angle. The report says the pilots selected TOGA, but again for the Airbus guys, would the autothrust system do that for them?