Regional Pay Comparisons

[CLECA]

Like I said, "if those numbers are correct".

"Over" 200+25+60/70=285+ to 295+. Quite a bit more than 245. If the numbers provided are wrong, I retract my statement.

THE ORIGINAL QUESTION OF LARGEST FLEET EAGLE VS XJT WAS FOR EMBs. HAVING SAID THAT CRJ's AND PROPS ARE NOT EMB'S. SO YES XJET HAS THE LARGEST EMBRAER FLEET AND EAGLE HAS A LARGER OVERALL FLEET THAN XJT WHEN YOU COUNT THE PROPS ETC.

One question though, doesn't ExpressJet operate EMB 140/145's?

yeah....largest operator of them in the US...they have 252 of them at present time

 

[NoJoy]

Another financial factor is how long it takes to upgrade in any given equipment. Say 2-4 years vs. 5-10. This is a great website by the way.

 

[ironwedge]

Another financial factor is how long it takes to upgrade in any given equipment. Say 2-4 years vs. 5-10. This is a great website by the way.

Although the pay comparison charts don't reflect that - each airline's pay chart gives the jr. capt. I guess they couldn't find a way to display upgrade time in a meaningful way. Also I read on the APC forum that the charts were only for comparing hourly pay. They admitted that there were other factors that contribute to overall compensation like: medical/dental, 401K, A Plan, B Plan, options, etc. It was stated that for a pilot, hourly rate was the stongest factor in determining W2 earnings potential. For that reason, the charts should be taken with a grain of salt.

I do think it's a great tool for pilot groups. Unless the rank and file knows where they stand in relation to the industry, it's hard to find a effective position at the bargaining table.

 

[detwilers]

Also I read on the APC forum that the charts were only for comparing hourly pay. They admitted that there were other factors that contribute to overall compensation like: medical/dental, 401K, A Plan, B Plan, options, etc. It was stated that for a pilot, hourly rate was the stongest factor in determining W2 earnings potential. For that reason, the charts should be taken with a grain of salt.

I do think it's a great tool for pilot groups. Unless the rank and file knows where they stand in relation to the industry, it's hard to find a effective position at the bargaining table.

I just started at XJT and I already am noticing huge differences in pay from when I was at independence air (besides the fact I am at 1st year pay again). The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year pay (what I was at when I left iair) are very close if not the same hourly pay rates as XJT. But on average at iair I was paid for 93 hours my last year there (actually flew about 35 hr a month) AND I was on reserve the entire time. At XJT I have not been able to make more than the 75 min guarantee yet. Also when I was able to hold a hard line at iair I was able to make 100 + hours easily. (Anything over 98 hours was at 200% pay). There was a time when everyone was making 120 hours a month at one point pre 9-11. I knew of a captain who actually was able to make more than 150 hours one month.


The point is I think a better, more meaningful, number would be the total pilot payroll divided by the number of active pilots to get a more accurate number of how "much" a pilot makes which would include soft pay and benefits. I would think one should be able to get those numbers from a 10K or the annual report from publicly traded companies. One day if I have the time I may take that project up.

 

[rstev1955]

I knew of a captain who actually was able to make more than 150 hours one month.

I know there are creative ways to increase your line value without actually flying, but 50 hours more????? I bet the FAA would love to ask him how he flew more than FARs allow in a 30-day period.

and for what it is worth...ExpressJet is the largest operator of regional JETS in the world. They have never claimed anything else.

 

[ArcticFlier]

I know there are creative ways to increase your line value without actually flying, but 50 hours more????? I bet the FAA would love to ask him how he flew more than FARs allow in a 30-day period.

and for what it is worth...ExpressJet is the largest operator of regional JETS in the world. They have never claimed anything else.

It's the difference between credit time versus block time.


AF

 

[detwilers]

I know there are creative ways to increase your line value without actually flying, but 50 hours more????? I bet the FAA would love to ask him how he flew more than FARs allow in a 30-day period.

and for what it is worth...ExpressJet is the largest operator of regional JETS in the world. They have never claimed anything else.

Well, He didn't, I didn't, and no one else flew more than 100 hours in the month. That is the point of my post. Hourly rate alone is not the best way to determine total compensation. It depends on all the fine print in your contract. In the captains case, scheduling was VERY desperate this particular month. Rather than cancel flights you could negotiate with them. e.g. Checking in for a four day trip you get a call from scheduling. Scheduling - "We REALLY need you to deadhead to LGA to do this trip instead". CA - "Sure but I want it above guarantee and at 150%." Scheduling - "Let me check on that" short hold, "OK we ca do it".

Captain does this a couple of times throughout the month and makes 150 hours while actually flying 98 hours. This was not a normal situation and only went on for about a year but for the most part you could get paid for 105 hours if you wanted to work a lot and at the end of the month after you tally it up have flown only 90 hours. This would happen because of above guarantee flying, over-blocking, and any canceled flights during the month would widen the gap between actual hours flown and hours paid.

 

[Nova]

This was not a normal situation and only went on for about a year...

So what's your point for brining it up? We had 150% for open time pickup for a few months back in 2000 and a lot of us were banking 100+ hours for minimal work but such abnormal situations don't make for good comparisons. There are a few clauses in the current XJet contract that permit pilots to make similar overs as well. Unforunately most don't help those on reserve but that's life.

This would happen because of above guarantee flying, over-blocking, and any canceled flights during the month would widen the gap between actual hours flown and hours paid.

And this is unique to Independance? I think most airlines have similar contract language that produces similar results.

I think this tells everything here....

I just started at XJT....

Most of the contract language that generates such extra pay don't pan out for the reserve pilots for the most part. Now with CLE being so short on FO's I'm sure a few of them will be making some extra $$ but they'll be flying quite a bit to get it.

You're right, hourly compensation doesn't paint a full picture of final year end earnings but what are you (or should you) base your lifestyle on? Minimum pay or hypothetical future earnings?

 

[DetoXJ]

YTD Block = 420
YTD Credit = 672

Thru June.

 

[detwilers]

So what's your point for brining it up? We had 150% for open time pickup for a few months back in 2000 and a lot of us were banking 100+ hours for minimal work but such abnormal situations don't make for good comparisons. There are a few clauses in the current XJet contract that permit pilots to make similar overs as well. Unforunately most don't help those on reserve but that's life.

Most of the contract language that generates such extra pay don't pan out for the reserve pilots for the most part. Now with CLE being so short on FO's I'm sure a few of them will be making some extra $$ but they'll be flying quite a bit to get it.

My point was that I was able to get paid for 95 hours a month on reserve with only 35 hours of block. Now I am only able to make 75 hours of pay with the 40 hours of block a month. Yes I realize there are big differences in reserve pay. You think, oh no big deal, you are only on reserve for a couple of months. Well I was on reserve for 3 years. I bid reserve for quality of life reasons. I was hoping to do that here at XJT too. But If I do I will never make as much as I once did even though the hourly rates are similar. I keep a monthly tab on my earnings (credit hours), perdeim, days off, block hours in an excel worksheet. I have been for 4 years now and all I can say is that my bottom line is being affected negatively. It appears, as far as I can tell, that I will have to work slightly more to get paid the same even if I bid a hard line.

You're right, hourly compensation doesn't paint a full picture of final year end earnings but what are you (or should you) base your lifestyle on? Minimum pay or hypothetical future earnings?

No like I said, a truer picture of how much you "make" would be how much money you cost your company at the end of the year. The pilot payroll budget for your company divided by the number of pilots should give you a number that not only includes your W2 earnings but also would include all the soft pay that is a result of other benefits. (e.g. medical benefits, taxes, insurance, contractual reimbursements like uniform allowance, dry cleaning allowance, headset allowance, on-time bonuses, lost bags bonuses, completion factor bonuses, profit sharing, retirement matching, etc)

Like someone stated earlier, take max captain hourly pay with a grain a salt. Many other factors affect total compensation. CHQ ca and a XJT ca hourly pay rates are not that different percentage wise. But FO pay is VERY different. Plus all the soft-pay differences might show that an XJT "pilot" (CA/FO average) would make a certain percentage more per year than a CHQ "pilot". I am curious how the difference in the percentage of hourly pay compares to the percentage of their pilot payroll budgets. I bet XJT pilots cost a lot more than an average CHQ pilot. FO pay is MUCH higher and the benefits at XJT are very good. I am not sure how other soft-pay compare but that is what this number would show. XJT would have a gap over CHQ, Comair would have a gap over indy and indy might have a gap over XJT. I would love to see how they all compare and how that all compares to hourly pay rates to see the differences.