Ramped by 2 airport cops and 2 sheriffs. . .Accused me of a Felony!!!! No Kidding

[rickair7777]

In my H.Opinion, I don't think the sheriffs have the authority to do a routine ramp search, that is my FAA boys juristiction. Yes, there are state aviation laws but under what principal did they have to detain you temporarily? Why would the FAA call these guys to mess with you? I don't think they did. I think these cops were bored, got a tip from someone and decided to act like hard a..... I would call FSDO and tell them what happend, sounds like you were in compliance with all FAA regs and query them as to why they didn't do the search and local law enforcment did. then file a complaint with the local pd about harrasment and threats that were not warranted. Give me a break, I wish I could have been there.

MK

Unfortunately, Barney Fife ( and the TSA) does have the authority to ramp you and check your license, medical, and ID, this is specified in the FAR 61. Hopefully he would stick to checking your basic documents and not attempt to determine currency or Mx issues. Hopefully. State law could govern that also.

The original situation does sound pretty bogus though...SOMEBODY dropped a dime.

 

[hyflyt560]

Any chance you filed a flight plan? My buddy filed an IFR flight plan from the Northwest into San Diego. When he opened the door in SAN, there were 3-4 INS agents there to greet him. He was born in an Arab state (US citizen for at least 15 years) and had recently returned from said Arab state on vacation. Any way, it was his name on the flight plan that got him flagged.

 

[Metro752]

Were you sure these were real cops? Why didn't you ask to speak with a Sergeant/White shirt?

I mean come on, if I was at my home airport, and the local county sheriffs showed, I'd at least have a buddy or two to call before I let these FAA Inspector wannabes keel haul me.

This is kind of like CPD trying to pull people over on the Ryan. It's weird.

 

[Say Again Over]

In todays world you MUST cooperate with law enforcement with a smile , remember even the MORONS at TSA can revoke your certificate.

 

[iflyabeech]

Were you sure these were real cops? Why didn't you ask to speak with a Sergeant/White shirt?

I mean come on, if I was at my home airport, and the local county sheriffs showed, I'd at least have a buddy or two to call before I let these FAA Inspector wannabes keel haul me.

This is kind of like CPD trying to pull people over on the Ryan. It's weird.

yes, they were cops. . . . I did look at the ID of the sheriffs in plain clothes. I believe in cooperating fully with the cops. If I would have gotten cocky like you suggest, they would have hauled me in and asked questions later.

No idea what "the Ryan" is. . .

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How about this....

If a local LEO asked for my certificate I would hold it up for him to see and inspect, but I would not hand it over.... fair?

 

[FN FAL]

Why in the world would the FAA let local or airport cops have jurisdiction in this case?

Judges have jurisdiction, cops have "authorized" arrest powers granted by state legislature.

A city, county, village, township police officer has the authority to arrest anywhere within the state that granted such powers, if he/she witnesses a misdemeanor or has reasonable suspicion someone committed a felony.

 

[iflyabeech]

I talked to AOPA legal services who basically said not to worry about it. I also talked to my FAA POI who said that that number was probably flagged, either by the DEA or the FAA. He said he would try to find the paperwork as it goes through the FSDO and let me know what it says.

 

[FN FAL]

How about this....

If a local LEO asked for my certificate I would hold it up for him to see and inspect, but I would not hand it over.... fair?

Then he'd tase you, you'd be arrested for impeding an officer/interfering with justice/disrupting investigative karma (or whatever catch all law they have on the books) and you'd be seeing the judge on Monday morning. In addition, don't eat the jailhouse chili and remember, you don't have to say boo...just name, rank and serial number.

 

[iflyabeech]

Judges have jurisdiction, cops have "authorized" arrest powers granted by state legislature.

A city, county, village, township, officer has the authority to arrest anywhere within the state that granted such powers, if he witnesses a misdemeanor or has reasonable suspicion someone committed a felony.

A little nitpicky don't you think?

 

[iflyabeech]

Then he'd tase you, you'd be arrested for impeding an officer/interfering with justice/disrupting investigative karma (or whatever catch all law they have on the books) and you'd be seeing the judge on Monday morning. In addition, don't eat the jailhouse chili and remember, you don't have to say boo...just name, rank and serial number.

You are right on this one.

 

[FN FAL]

A little nitpicky don't you think?

I'm not a lawyer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night and they had "Legend of Billy Jack" on Movie Classics Channel. I'm sporting double wood.

 

[:-)]

I don't have the time, nor inclination (nor the knowhow for that matter) to do a legal search, but I seem to remember an article in the AOPA pilot years ago that stated that a LEO had the right to look at your certificate; but that you should hold it because it had been ruled that actually handing it to them constituted "surrender". Of course if you "surrender" your certificate, you don't have the right to get it back.

I don't care what FN thinks, If I ever had any idea that a LEO isn't working in my best interest, I will NOT hand over my certificate. If you think about it, what will they do? For that matter, what would have happened in the ramp check in question? Does the Sheriff have legal authority to arrest a pilot for not possesing a certificate? What if you honestly forgot it? For instance, my certificate stays in my flight case (in the crew room), but I occasionally fly light stuff; it is conceivable that I might fly without my piece of paper. Is that criminal?

In all practicality, we live in a police state, so we should all just go ahead and mail back the certificates today.

 

[leardawg]

Some years ago I had the experience of "retrieving" an airplane that had been spirited away to an airport in a different state (as part of a lawsuit involving a Flight School owner who left town in the middle of the night, leaving many students sucking wind). I flew the airplane back home with no incident. The next day, I'm sitting in the FBO when a Sherrif's car comes speeding up the road, onto the ramp, and around a corner into a concealed spot. A deputy and a plain-clothes detective jump out, all breathless, (there was a shotgun propped up in the seat between them!), and announce "there's possibly a stolen airplane on it's way in, a N@#$%^." I tell them "you mean that one in the Hangar?" The detective looks at the airplane, looks at his piece of paper, and says "Yeah! What the hell is going on here?! Do you know anything about this?" I told them I was the one who flew the airplane here (the previous day). They were ready to haul me in until I explained the situation. They decided it was a "civil matter" as far as they were concerned, and for the courts to decide. I never found out where their tip came from, although I suspect the "other side" in the lawsuit had something to do with it.

 

[iflyabeech]

I don't have the time, nor inclination (nor the knowhow for that matter) to do a legal search, but I seem to remember an article in the AOPA pilot years ago that stated that a LEO had the right to look at your certificate; but that you should hold it because it had been ruled that actually handing it to them constituted "surrender". Of course if you "surrender" your certificate, you don't have the right to get it back.

I don't care what FN thinks, If I ever had any idea that a LEO isn't working in my best interest, I will NOT hand over my certificate. If you think about it, what will they do? For that matter, what would have happened in the ramp check in question? Does the Sheriff have legal authority to arrest a pilot for not possesing a certificate? What if you honestly forgot it? For instance, my certificate stays in my flight case (in the crew room), but I occasionally fly light stuff; it is conceivable that I might fly without my piece of paper. Is that criminal?

In all practicality, we live in a police state, so we should all just go ahead and mail back the certificates today.

My POI said that it was definitely a good thing that I cooperated with them. They do have the authority to inspect your certificates and allowing them to inspect it does not constitute surrender. Period. Arresting someone for an FAA offense is a different ball of worms!