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Ram Air Freight Pay Scale Increase
- Thread starter Big Dog
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IFollowRoads
F'n dart in my neck
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Read This Closely People!!!
- What percentage of pilots at RAF ACTUALLY stay longer than a year? Very, VERY few. It seemed the average was 4-6 months, when I was there last year. Must be less now - as it APPEARS they're trying to make it LOOK like they're throwing money at you!
- VERY, VERY few line pilots (especially multi-engine rated guys/gals) stay longer than 6 months! They get fed up with the iffy maintenance and single-pilot IFR with equipment failures.
- Again, as I can attest to from personal experience, it's a great place to build time - but not to stagnate at. There are MUCH better paying jobs out there, with much better equipment to fly, with real TANGIBLE benefits.
- Please read between the lines people. Companies like this DO NOT throw money at people. There's always a catch, even if it looks like they do.
Come on "Big Dog", I know you've got some BS wisdom to throw out there! Why don't you use your real name, or at least let us know it's really Big John, and not Big Dog!!!
- What percentage of pilots at RAF ACTUALLY stay longer than a year? Very, VERY few. It seemed the average was 4-6 months, when I was there last year. Must be less now - as it APPEARS they're trying to make it LOOK like they're throwing money at you!
- VERY, VERY few line pilots (especially multi-engine rated guys/gals) stay longer than 6 months! They get fed up with the iffy maintenance and single-pilot IFR with equipment failures.
- Again, as I can attest to from personal experience, it's a great place to build time - but not to stagnate at. There are MUCH better paying jobs out there, with much better equipment to fly, with real TANGIBLE benefits.
- Please read between the lines people. Companies like this DO NOT throw money at people. There's always a catch, even if it looks like they do.
Come on "Big Dog", I know you've got some BS wisdom to throw out there! Why don't you use your real name, or at least let us know it's really Big John, and not Big Dog!!!
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Big Dog
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I made no comments as far as what one may make of the job in this thread. I simply posted the pay scale and let people make up their own mind. I say this to everybody; it is what it is. It is primarily check and bank material hauling in piston single and multi engine aircraft. As always, whether in a 1976 PA32 or a new E190, it is up to the PIC to find and write up discrepancies. If you choose to fly broken equipment, then that's the PIC's choice.
If you choose to use RAF as a place to stay 6-8 months and build your multi time, the choice is yours. If you want to stay for a whole year or 2 and work your way up the food chain, that choice is also yours. You also have many choices to make about where to live, depending on whether your priority is flight time, multi time, living near family and getting to see them, QOL or whatever. Perhaps that's the best thing about RAF, is that you have choice and flexability, something many other places don't offer. My personal choice is QOL as opposed to the shinny new jet, a pay cut and a 4 year wait to upgrade, not to mention the reserve schedule and commuting. I have been rewarded with regular and steady increases in pay for sticking around a little bit. To each his own.
As far as me being a certain owner in the company, you couldn't be farther from the truth...I suggest you STFU about that. I'm not him.
If you choose to use RAF as a place to stay 6-8 months and build your multi time, the choice is yours. If you want to stay for a whole year or 2 and work your way up the food chain, that choice is also yours. You also have many choices to make about where to live, depending on whether your priority is flight time, multi time, living near family and getting to see them, QOL or whatever. Perhaps that's the best thing about RAF, is that you have choice and flexability, something many other places don't offer. My personal choice is QOL as opposed to the shinny new jet, a pay cut and a 4 year wait to upgrade, not to mention the reserve schedule and commuting. I have been rewarded with regular and steady increases in pay for sticking around a little bit. To each his own.
As far as me being a certain owner in the company, you couldn't be farther from the truth...I suggest you STFU about that. I'm not him.
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coltsfn8888
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mcjohn
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The Concord domicile at Ram is still my plan. Some of you folks need to lighten up IMO. If you're the kind of person that is ALWAYS searching for greener pastures then I'm sure it's very easy to snub your nose at MANY companies. If you truly love flying and aren't in it ONLY for the money then it should be a little easier to size up a company on what they offer. A freaking J O B !! And maybe a tolerable QOL. Like I eluded to in a previous post, you can't run around freaking out about every little maintenance issue. And when you do exercise your rights of PIC and refuse to fly something, your comany should respect that. When they don't (within reason) then it's time for those greener pastures. A minor oil leak is nothing. A dead mag is another. Experienced pilots know when to say when. (Not that I'm THAT experienced or anything, but I have learned a lot regarding maintenance is the past few months.)
T-Storm Chaser
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mcjohn said:
Go to Ram and you will end up learning alot more. But not necessarily in a good way. Bud, it doesn't matter what company you fly for, they aren't gonna like it when you MX out a bird or write something up. Either way, it means money out of their pocket. Don't ever expect them to respect it, they just have to deal with it. Oh yeah, if you are gonna refuse to fly ANYTHING, make sure you have a damn good reason and make sure it is in writing. I have seen several a pilot get canned for having balls(telling MX or mngmt to stick it) but no brains (writing up the problem and maybe taking pictures). These days it is all about CYOA. Who can do it the best. And don't expect the company to look out for you.
mcjohn, look into airnet, same great flying experience, except all multi (or C208), better pay, upgrade to jet, and you can write-up whatever you want. Oh, and you should never lecture freight dogs about PIC authority or provide anecdotal evidence from your banner-towing career. I doubt you ever towed one through ice or thunderstorms in the middle of the night. Just a little advice. Take it or leave it.
StarHustler
Go Mountaineers!
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Way2Broke
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mcjohn
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airjake said:
I'll take it. I know where I stand and it is quite low on the totem pole. Lecturing freight dogs is not my intent and would be down right stupid. I'm only reflecting on my odd situation. I work for a banner company that is infamous for some shotty old planes. Half the folks that show up to fly just turn around and leave after they see the planes. The deal is, is that they actually are very safe being completely stripped down like they are. Having no electrical systems make the planes simple and it's very easy to find any problems that may arise (no cowling.) Also, the pilots are responsible for almost all maintenance on their plane (the A&P coaches us through of course.) We also put the planes together at the beginning of the season after the engines have been pickled all winter. All I'm saying, is that having learned what I have by performing the Mx and all, is that many pilots unneccessarily freak out about things like oil leaks and dirty old beat up planes. Has absolutely nothing to do with the freight dog category of pilots. It's more about those pilots that like to run around telling other folks that they should never fly single pilot cargo jobs because they all have deadly equipment and they all MAKE you go. I just don't buy it. I could be wrong but I'll find out for myself soon enough. Oh, and not that it really matters, but banners pilots do fly through (or should I say under) thunderstorms and beach fog has proven to be a serious issue a couple days of each week but I know what you're saying. It doesn't compare. Has scared the living crap out of me though!
Didn't mean to jump on you personally mcjohn. It looks like your doing things the right way career-wise. I would much rather have someone with your background where I work than whoever just gratuated from whatever pilot factory. I just laugh sometimes at the so-called advice some people like to give out on here.
IFollowRoads
F'n dart in my neck
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coltsfn8888
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McJohn it is true a minor oil leak is nothing to worry about. When that oil leak gets to the point where it gets inside the landing gear and causes a brake failure its another story. And be careful flying planes that have minor things wrong with them. Although you (or ram management) may not view it as a serious issue the faa might disagree. Its your liscense on the line not theirs so be careful.
Big Dog is it true this new pay scale was put in place due to a six month contract that Ram has adopted?
Big Dog is it true this new pay scale was put in place due to a six month contract that Ram has adopted?
mcjohn
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I don't trust the FAA. They recently decided to check up on how the banner company I work for "trains" us to go into the nearby airport to refuel "without radios." The FAA gives us waivers to tow banners so they have to come out and observe how successfully we've been trained to pick up and drop banners. That is normal. But it looks like they recently have been contacted by someone back at the field we fly into for refueling. That person seems to have a problem with us flying into "his" field without radios and complained or something so now the FAA has requested that the owner of our banner company send in a write up of how he trains us to go into the other field without radios. I told the owner/boss that he doesn't have to do that and he may want to contact AOPA legal services for some advice on what to do. I mean c'mon! Where the hell does the FAA think that the owner of a part 91 company is responsible for training commercial pilots how to proceed into a nearby field. Unfortunately this has really caused me to lose respect for what I assumed would be the PROFESSIONAL PROCESSES OF THE FAA.:smash:
Way2Broke
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That comment was never directed at you. It is directed at any pilot that has ever taken a job just so that they can say "I fly a jet." I respect people like you for having morals and a real understanding of what is important in life.IFollowRoads said:Ease up on me bro!! I was only commenting on insurance companies. As far as QOL issues, I left a 40k/yr gig to move back home with the wife and kids. Now I strap on a 172 every day. I know what you're saying
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mcjohn
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That's exactly the complaint that led to the situation. They have in the years past and gave up on it. More trouble than it's worth. Too loud in our cockpits and the radios never last more than a season. Straight pipes...no doors....no we don't drop or pick-up there, just refuel. I went to K-Mart and bought one of those 12 volt battery packs they sell to jump start cars and it has a lighter adapter thing that's built into it that I plug my SP-200 into just in case I really need it. It's all very light weight and I'll carry it with me anytime I fly a POS. If you're ever looking for a great light weight 12 volt power supply that's rechargeable go to K-Mart. It's only $32 on sale. I recharge it once a week at the most if I'm transmitting heavily.
momalley81
Done spillt mah beer...
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[thread creep]
If you read the company's waiver, I believe you'll find that they are responsible for training you in their operations. Your operations now include going to a remote field.
Though, what this sounds like is, someone at the local airport has their panties in a wad, and whined enough to the FAA. The Fed's, to make it look like their doing somethign, ask JD to outline his training program. They write a letter, outlining the training program. And that's it. Fed's can say "look, he's not breaking the regs, he trains his guys to operate safely. Nothing we can do"
Be safe out there!
If you read the company's waiver, I believe you'll find that they are responsible for training you in their operations. Your operations now include going to a remote field.
Though, what this sounds like is, someone at the local airport has their panties in a wad, and whined enough to the FAA. The Fed's, to make it look like their doing somethign, ask JD to outline his training program. They write a letter, outlining the training program. And that's it. Fed's can say "look, he's not breaking the regs, he trains his guys to operate safely. Nothing we can do"
Be safe out there!
mcjohn
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You are correct sir. That's exactly what it is.....according to JD and AT. They could care less and were glad to give the letter to the FAA. I must confuse easily. I figured at this point I know very well how to fly into an uncontrolled field. I've endorsed folks to get their PPL. I trained them in uncontrolled fields and now the FAA wants proof that WE are being trained in uncontrolled field procedures. Just ironic, that's all. I wish those folks over there would quit flying jet patterns in 172s and Cherokees. Too hazy for that crap.
CaptainChris77
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First of all Big Dog=President of the company.
Secondly, RAF gave their pilots a $5/day raise which equals $25/week, $100/month, $1200/year.
Airnet, AMF, AirNow, Flight Express, MAC, etc. all offer better pay, good Mx (except AirNow), and better QOL. Lets assume that you have a 11-14 hour duty day at Ram which is common.
With an 11 hour duty day you make: $8.18/hr
With a 14 hour duty day you make: $6.43/hr
FlightExpress for instance pays $10/duty hour. $110/11 hour duty day, $140/14 hour duty day, etc. Ram is a bottom feeder not to mention the pay is horrible. At an average regional lets say you make $22/hr with a 75 hr guarantee. Thats $1650/month vs. $1800/mo at Ram. Also factor in per diem at $1.40/hr (lets say you do four 4-day trips) gives you $537.60/mo. Total=$2187.60 FIRST YEAR!
Second year, your pay goes to $33-35/hr, etc. You do the math, look at other freight companies, but DON'T listen to the b.s. about RAM being a paycut from a regional. Also---the insurance is non-existant. I used to work there for a little over 6 months and never saw a BCBS insurance card.
Secondly, RAF gave their pilots a $5/day raise which equals $25/week, $100/month, $1200/year.
Airnet, AMF, AirNow, Flight Express, MAC, etc. all offer better pay, good Mx (except AirNow), and better QOL. Lets assume that you have a 11-14 hour duty day at Ram which is common.
With an 11 hour duty day you make: $8.18/hr
With a 14 hour duty day you make: $6.43/hr
FlightExpress for instance pays $10/duty hour. $110/11 hour duty day, $140/14 hour duty day, etc. Ram is a bottom feeder not to mention the pay is horrible. At an average regional lets say you make $22/hr with a 75 hr guarantee. Thats $1650/month vs. $1800/mo at Ram. Also factor in per diem at $1.40/hr (lets say you do four 4-day trips) gives you $537.60/mo. Total=$2187.60 FIRST YEAR!
Second year, your pay goes to $33-35/hr, etc. You do the math, look at other freight companies, but DON'T listen to the b.s. about RAM being a paycut from a regional. Also---the insurance is non-existant. I used to work there for a little over 6 months and never saw a BCBS insurance card.
LAFrequentflyer
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