Question for ASA Pilots

[Varmint]

First of all you can throw any flag you like. I am telling you what goes on in ASA dispatch not others that you may have dispatched in.

I don't come to work and schedule crews on aircrafts it's all ready set up and I am sorry but I don't have the time to search every single flight on my desk to see if each crew can keep there aircraft.

What I am saying saying is that when a crew calls in and ask to keep there aircraft we ( dispatchers ) despite what you believe do ask the sector managers if it's possible. sometime looking a the plot one can see if aircrafts are tagged for mtc. Even if it's not tagged by swapping it may run two flights late. So would you rather run two flights late or one?

I really don't know what else to tell you if you think you have a better way, by all means send a suggestion in to the duty managers or better yet the director. I am all for running flights on time.

I agree giving good customer service should be every ones #1 priority, however by looking at the day to day operation I sometimes question just what the heck ppl are thinking

When speaking of scheduling crews on aircraft and keeping crews together, I am speaking of the OCC in general, not individual dispatchers. At both companies I used to work for, the flight control manager and aircraft router used to get together and adjust the plot for the next day for mx routing and to keep crews together when possible. It worked out great for the most part.

I appreciate that our requests to keep aircraft, no matter how irritating, are being passed on. At least I know that some of the time, they actually are.

I agree with you...looking at the day to day operation it seems as though some don't really care about the customer and our operation. I think that is a pity. We have guys here that will delay a flight because they are too proud to do a little something that is a bit outside the scope of their job. We also have guys that will fly slow on purpose so they get paid more rather than being concerned with our passengers schedule. If they are that pissed off at the company and that miserable...quit and go fly boxes.

 

[fltdspx]

When speaking of scheduling crews on aircraft and keeping crews together, I am speaking of the OCC in general, not individual dispatchers. We used to have the capability of adjusting the plot the day before flights for mx routing and to keep crews together when possible. It worked out great for the most part.

I appreciate that our requests to keep aircraft, no matter how irritating, are being passed on. At least I know that some of the time, they actually are.

I agree with you...looking at the day to day operation it seems as though some don't really care about the customer and our operation. I think that is a pity. We have guys here that will delay a flight because they are too proud to do a little something that is a bit outside the scope of their job. We also have guys that will fly slow on purpose so they get paid more rather than being concerned with our passengers schedule. If they are that pissed off at the company and that miserable...quit and go fly boxes.

I see what your saying...I would have to say there is always a few in every group that seem like they are pissed off at the world.

It would be nice to actually run on time for a change. check out the plot. I would bet you even tonight it's in the pink ( late ) .

Now we have to remember that big D runs the sow at the airport. Heck I thought things were going to get better. From what I hea on the radio it's seems to be as bad or worse.

about Brad changing things around for the better.. we have not gotten any word in flight control of any such changes as of yet

 

[10nCLR]

First of all you can throw any flag you like. I am telling you what goes on in ASA dispatch not others that you may have dispatched in.

I don't come to work and schedule crews on aircrafts it's all ready set up and I am sorry but I don't have the time to search every single flight on my desk to see if each crew can keep there aircraft.

What I am saying saying is that when a crew calls in and ask to keep there aircraft we ( dispatchers ) despite what you believe do ask the sector managers if it's possible. sometime looking a the plot one can see if aircrafts are tagged for mtc. Even if it's not tagged by swapping it may run two flights late. So would you rather run two flights late or one?

I really don't know what else to tell you if you think you have a better way, by all means send a suggestion in to the duty managers or better yet the director. I am all for running flights on time.

I agree giving good customer service should be every ones #1 priority, however by looking at the day to day operation I sometimes question just what the heck ppl are thinking

So very true, usually crews just pay attention to their flights and swaps and not the WHOLE picture. I don't think sector managers (system controllers) really go out of their way to make crews swap unneccesarily. I'm sure one of the first things they do at the beginning of their shift is to try to undo swaps and then monitor their a/c throughout the day to see if there are any more that look feasible to unswap. Time dictates as some a/c routings get delayed and others don't, roundtrips matchup and others get worse. Certain MELs dictate where the a/c can fly to(no airstarts/heater cart, no lav w/long flight, anti-skid and so on), thus dictating why a crew has to swap. Once again some crews see their day(flights and a/c) on the plot but fail to look downline and see how and why it could affect other flights. Mx blocks are a simple answer and others aren't. Handling 27 or so E120 out of SFO during a GDP must be tricky trying to undo swaps and then unswapping swaps created by swaps. Same thing goes for the RJs floating between 2 sometimes 3 hubs with one having a GDP during the day and then end up at a mx base. I'm sure those a/c are almost impossible to undo a crew swap. Anyway, get the picture now. Although sometimes I'm sure unneccesary swaps show up that the sector manager(system controller) misses and a 2nd or 3rd eye catches it. When this happens I'm sure they are more than willing to unswap.

*OVER#

 

[ASA DX]

So very true, usually crews just pay attention to their flights and swaps and not the WHOLE picture. I don't think sector managers (system controllers) really go out of their way to make crews swap unneccesarily. I'm sure one of the first things they do at the beginning of their shift is to try to undo swaps and then monitor their a/c throughout the day to see if there are any more that look feasible to unswap. Time dictates as some a/c routings get delayed and others don't, roundtrips matchup and others get worse. Certain MELs dictate where the a/c can fly to(no airstarts/heater cart, no lav w/long flight, anti-skid and so on), thus dictating why a crew has to swap. Once again some crews see their day(flights and a/c) on the plot but fail to look downline and see how and why it could affect other flights. Mx blocks are a simple answer and others aren't. Handling 27 or so E120 out of SFO during a GDP must be tricky trying to undo swaps and then unswapping swaps created by swaps. Same thing goes for the RJs floating between 2 sometimes 3 hubs with one having a GDP during the day and then end up at a mx base. I'm sure those a/c are almost impossible to undo a crew swap. Anyway, get the picture now. Although sometimes I'm sure unneccesary swaps show up that the sector manager(system controller) misses and a 2nd or 3rd eye catches it. When this happens I'm sure they are more than willing to unswap.

*OVER#

I agree and disagree..I have worked both sides of the whole swap process. I was in the c-tower back as a tower coordinator before coming to dispatch. I have seen loading and unloading of bags, pax walking all over the concourse, crews swapping back and forth. I believe that 1 sector manager should have to work over there in the tower (at the airport) every night. I have said that from the beginning. The operation is there "at the airport". We have swap happy sector managers, no doubt. We also have sector managers who have big heads after assuming the position. They think they call the shots and will stick to their guns, never swallowing their pride when they make a stupid swap. i.e the other night...mtc posts long mtc time on aircraft...manager swaps to new a/c...a/c mysteriously comes up mtc rdy and crew is on original a/c rdy to board...manager sticks to their guns makes crew take the other a/c anyway. Swapping is more then just clicking the freaking the mouse and some of them over there don't realize that yet. Hell, the only time half of them have set foot on the airport property is for pass travel or their jump seat time when they use to be a dispatcher. In addition to that, your average sector manager makes 7% above a dispatcher in whatever their current year of dispatch pay would be. So guess what, the people that have all the seniority and the experience that would make good mangers aren't going to take Tuesday, Weds, Thursday off on nightshift for stinking 7 %. I smoked that 7 % this year in OT alone working in dispatch. I would say that 75% of your sector managers have less then 5 years total seniority at ASA. And none of them that I can think of have worked the airport side of the operation. There is a sector manager position open now on ourasa, and guess what they don't even have to hold a valid dispatch license to hold that job now anyway. So don't let any of them quote you FAR's or safety issues on operating a flight, because half of them are DQ on their certificate or in the future they wont have one anyway!!!! BBBBBBBBOOOOOUUUYYYYAAAAAAAA

Stick that in your back pocket and sit on that for a while!!!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

The past month or so ASA has done a great job keeping AC and crews paired together throughout the day. I don't know how hard it was to do this, but it makes the operation flow so much better now.

That said, whoever was incharge of AC swaps on 40 minute turns in ATL in the past should be operating the lav dumper now.

Kudos for this change.

 

[10nCLR]

I agree and disagree..I have worked both sides of the whole swap process. I was in the c-tower back as a tower coordinator before coming to dispatch. I have seen loading and unloading of bags, pax walking all over the concourse, crews swapping back and forth. I believe that 1 sector manager should have to work over there in the tower (at the airport) every night. I have said that from the beginning. The operation is there "at the airport". We have swap happy sector managers, no doubt. We also have sector managers who have big heads after assuming the position. They think they call the shots and will stick to their guns, never swallowing their pride when they make a stupid swap. i.e the other night...mtc posts long mtc time on aircraft...manager swaps to new a/c...a/c mysteriously comes up mtc rdy and crew is on original a/c rdy to board...manager sticks to their guns makes crew take the other a/c anyway. Swapping is more then just clicking the freaking the mouse and some of them over there don't realize that yet. Hell, the only time half of them have set foot on the airport property is for pass travel or their jump seat time when they use to be a dispatcher. In addition to that, your average sector manager makes 7% above a dispatcher in whatever their current year of dispatch pay would be. So guess what, the people that have all the seniority and the experience that would make good mangers aren't going to take Tuesday, Weds, Thursday off on nightshift for stinking 7 %. I smoked that 7 % this year in OT alone working in dispatch. I would say that 75% of your sector managers have less then 5 years total seniority at ASA. And none of them that I can think of have worked the airport side of the operation. There is a sector manager position open now on ourasa, and guess what they don't even have to hold a valid dispatch license to hold that job now anyway. So don't let any of them quote you FAR's or safety issues on operating a flight, because half of them are DQ on their certificate or in the future they wont have one anyway!!!! BBBBBBBBOOOOOUUUYYYYAAAAAAAA

Stick that in your back pocket and sit on that for a while!!!

Gee, I thought I was on your side but with all your ranting, whoa, what did I say to offset your keel.
So what don't you disagree with. As a fellow company(SKW, inc.) dispatcher, I was actually defending the OCC. I worked both sides too and continue to do so. What you don't seem to understand is that my main point was to explain to some crew members why they have to swap sometimes and that some crews think it's the dispatchers(controller/sect mngr) fault; like we do it on purpose. Sometimes, complete communication between all parties doesn't always get conveyed, therefore occasional confusion can arise. But you know what? The sun will still rise from the East and set in the West.
FYI, not to be a smart ass or anything, but, I have loaded and unloaded bags into now swapped a/c, I have walked and talked with the pax in the concourse and I have personally told crew members in person that they were now swapping into a different a/c.

 

[ASA DX]

Gee, I thought I was on your side but with all your ranting, whoa, what did I say to offset your keel.
So what don't you disagree with. As a fellow company(SKW, inc.) dispatcher, I was actually defending the OCC. I worked both sides too and continue to do so. What you don't seem to understand is that my main point was to explain to some crew members why they have to swap sometimes and that some crews think it's the dispatchers(controller/sect mngr) fault; like we do it on purpose. Sometimes, complete communication between all parties doesn't always get conveyed, therefore occasional confusion can arise. But you know what? The sun will still rise from the East and set in the West.
FYI, not to be a smart ass or anything, but, I have loaded and unloaded bags into now swapped a/c, I have walked and talked with the pax in the concourse and I have personally told crew members in person that they were now swapping into a different a/c.

Well if you don't work in Atlanta for ASA on the dispatch side then squash that. Skywest cant compare to a/c rotations, hub cluster #$$%@, and swaps on your desk. Don't sit back there and act like you have walked in my shoes buddy, b/c I promise you haven't. Come work in a real airport one day with some weather and then get your wings.

 

[ASA DX]

Well if you don't work in Atlanta for ASA on the dispatch side then squash that. Skywest cant compare to a/c rotations, hub cluster #$$%@, and swaps on your desk. Don't sit back there and act like you have walked in my shoes buddy, b/c I promise you haven't. Come work in a real airport one day with some weather and then get your wings.

and i am not happy at my current employer, which is different then you also.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Well if you don't work in Atlanta for ASA on the dispatch side then squash that. Skywest cant compare to a/c rotations, hub cluster #$$%@, and swaps on your desk. Don't sit back there and act like you have walked in my shoes buddy, b/c I promise you haven't. Come work in a real airport one day with some weather and then get your wings.

Ummm...dude...calm down. I'm not entirely sure why you decided to go nuts here but, seriously, breathe. 10nClr was defending our workgroup as a whole...

Not ripping on you personally or anything but, in the spirit of fairness...

• 3 codeshares...3 separate sets of challenges.
• 118 more aircraft
• Almost 1,000 more flights per day to every corner of the U.S.
• At last check ORD and SFO were real airports with weather issues

I dare say we run a slightly more intricate operation...so don't sit there and act as though we are clueless. I think we might know a little something about hub meltdowns (more than one at a time, too), tons of swaps on our desks, etc. And most of us here HAVE worked the airport operations side of things in one capacity or another for one airline or another prior to getting into dispatch...so, quite frankly, the majority of us over here have walked in your shoes to a certain extent.

Breathe, bro. It's nothing personal, but I will defend my coworkers and the work we do above all. I know you guys get your tails kicked on a daily basis trying to piece together the puzzle...we all do. But just because Mother Delta isn't kicking us in the teeth everyday the way she does you guys doesn't mean we don't know what it's like trying to keep it all together. We have Daddy United in ORD and SFO to do that...on top of being at the mercy of Mother Delta and the Cookie Palace.

And, if you really want to drag this argument out, lets take it to the dispatcher forum because that IS why it's there.

 

[buscap]

Nahhhhh....keep it right here!

Makes me feel good knowing pilots aren't the only crybabies!!!

 

[10nCLR]

Ummm...dude...calm down. I'm not entirely sure why you decided to go nuts here but, seriously, breathe. 10nClr was defending our workgroup as a whole...

Not ripping on you personally or anything but, in the spirit of fairness...

• 3 codeshares...3 separate sets of challenges.
• 118 more aircraft
• Almost 1,000 more flights per day to every corner of the U.S.
• At last check ORD and SFO were real airports with weather issues

I dare say we run a slightly more intricate operation...so don't sit there and act as though we are clueless. I think we might know a little something about hub meltdowns (more than one at a time, too), tons of swaps on our desks, etc. And most of us here HAVE worked the airport operations side of things in one capacity or another for one airline or another prior to getting into dispatch...so, quite frankly, the majority of us over here have walked in your shoes to a certain extent.

Breathe, bro. It's nothing personal, but I will defend my coworkers and the work we do above all. I know you guys get your tails kicked on a daily basis trying to piece together the puzzle...we all do. But just because Mother Delta isn't kicking us in the teeth everyday the way she does you guys doesn't mean we don't know what it's like trying to keep it all together. We have Daddy United in ORD and SFO to do that...on top of being at the mercy of Mother Delta and the Cookie Palace.

And, if you really want to drag this argument out, lets take it to the dispatcher forum because that IS why it's there.

Yo Walter, thanks for keeping it real. I think we fly out of 5 real hubs (LAX, SFO, SLC, DEN, ORD) and 2 fake ones (MKE and ATL) right? I agree, lets go to the dispatch forum. buscap, at first I thought he was a pilot.....Just kidding...LOL
oops, I forgot MCI and PDX/SEA. Oh and here comes the snow into SLC this morning, again.

 

[www.]

Breathe, bro.

I'm sorry. That term was used over 20 years ago.

PC would be...
friend,
co-worker,
buddy,
associate
and for you west coast people, ERs too, DUDE!

 

[10nCLR]

I'm sorry. That term was used over 20 years ago.

PC would be...
friend,
co-worker,
buddy,
associate
and for you west coast people, ERs too, DUDE!

Okay then. What do they call it then in the Inter-mountain west. Huh?

 

[WalterSobchak]

I'm sorry. That term was used over 20 years ago.

PC would be...
friend,
co-worker,
buddy,
associate
and for you west coast people, ERs too, DUDE!

I started using it again after the "Don't taze me, bro!" incident. Don't ask me why, it just stuck in my head.

 

[10nCLR]

Well if you don't work in Atlanta for ASA on the dispatch side then squash that. Skywest cant compare to a/c rotations, hub cluster #$$%@, and swaps on your desk. Don't sit back there and act like you have walked in my shoes buddy, b/c I promise you haven't. Come work in a real airport one day with some weather and then get your wings.

I still don't understand what your point is. I was simply backing up what you said earlier "sometime looking a the plot one can see if aircrafts are tagged for mtc. Even if it's not tagged by swapping it may run two flights late. So would you rather run two flights late or one? "I just tried to convey to some people why swaps have to be done, etc. I never said that your airport is bigger and badder than my airports. I never said I have walked in your shoes, wouldn't want to and it sounds like you wouldn't be my buddy either. I tried. To be fair, I also believe SFO gets a marine layer almost daily, LAX has its ups and downs, SLC/DEN get a hell of alot more snow than ATL and the last I checked ORD is a real airport too which has an absolute ridiculus rwy config. Combine that with certain fair wx conditions and you will have a GDP. So fog/low ceilings on the west coast, snow in the inter-mountain west and wind/snow/rain in ORD and everything in between can cause considerable cluster #$$%@, especially when an airport closes for 2 days, like it did last year in DEN. Ponder that one for awhile. Can you say cluster fv<K! So don't come at me with words like "Come work in a real airport one day with some weather and then get your wings" because you have know idea where and in what conditions I have worked in. You started the rant while I was only defending our workgroup as a whole regarding swaps.
See you in the Dispatch forum........Hopefully you will play nicer.

 

[www.]

I started using it again after the "Don't taze me, bro!" incident. Don't ask me why, it just stuck in my head.

That's good. Did you get the bumper sticker from Bill O?

 

[www.]

Okay then. What do they call it then in the Inter-mountain west. Huh?

I'm not sure. Do they sit on the porch and play the banjo?

 

[WalterSobchak]

That's good. Did you get the bumper sticker from Bill O?

Neg...Bill O can rot.

I'm not sure. Do they sit on the porch and play the banjo?

No, no, no...that's Georgia...

 

[fltdspx]

I think everyone has somewhat of a handle on how things at ASA works but I think it's pretty bad though when a sector manager gets power hungry and doesn't care about the pax and still makes the crew swap to another aircraft. I mean if the aircraft is fixed and they are ready to go then let it go. I don't remember anything about the plot having to be correct in order for the flight to leave. As long as MTC says it's airworthy and me and the CAPT. agree then I think I will let the flight leave on time and just deal with what ever wrath comes my way. Sometimes a Dispatcher needs to stand up and be heard and do the right thing. My fellow co-worker is tired as well as I am of the power hungry sector manages who have egos and just don't care about the pax.

 

[ASA DX]

I think everyone has somewhat of a handle on how things at ASA works but I think it's pretty bad though when a sector manager gets power hungry and doesn't care about the pax and still makes the crew swap to another aircraft. I mean if the aircraft is fixed and they are ready to go then let it go. I don't remember anything about the plot having to be correct in order for the flight to leave. As long as MTC says it's airworthy and me and the CAPT. agree then I think I will let the flight leave on time and just deal with what ever wrath comes my way. Sometimes a Dispatcher needs to stand up and be heard and do the right thing. My fellow co-worker is tired as well as I am of the power hungry sector manages who have egos and just don't care about the pax.

That's exactly what i was saying..my post did not come off in any sort of rant. The post started for "ASA Pilots" not skywest dispatchers. Just b/c things are flowing nice on your end of the spectrum, doesnt mean its that way everywhere. If you defend your sector managers on their decisions to swap, then that is kool...sounds like you might have some
pretty decent managers over there. See if any of them want to come on over and work with us..haha. All I was doing conveying to our crews, the type of ppl we have in our managment department making the swaps..I just quoted the last message on the board in that indivdual topic...nothing was directed at anyone in your company.