Question for ASA Pilots

[Varmint]

I agree with my brother dispatcher at SkyWest , we welcome all pilots to sit with us when you have time to kill. I believe if we all work together we could get along much better. just remember that Dispatch is different than scheduling, maintenance or ramp tower.

I welcome a dispatcher to come ride with me on a five leg day. Before you leave to ride, make sure the trip has the typical two aircraft swaps. Sounds simple and easy but those two swaps equate to two concourse changes, dealing with other peoples crap aircraft that they have delayed causing you now to inherit their delay, dealing with multiple crap mels like APU inop, and putting up with aircraft with no crew closets. No crew closets require you to shove four days of crap into the overheads (which smashes everything in your bag and scrapes your bag up) or put it in the back and risk it getting lost.

You say quit whining and that stuff does not seem like a big deal....well, come out on a 13.9 hour duty day when its cold and raining and there are hours of ground delay programs. With the delays, you are doing all that crap above on a compressed schedule trying to get somewhere so you can go to sleep for your required 8 hours of rest.

90% of that is not your fault...but it all begins with the simple aircraft swap. Your smarta$$ flightinfo signoff (at the bottom of each post) about "keeping the aircraft" equates to the "ghost" smartass remarks on the radio. Touche.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Now OPS Freq???? That's a different story. As far as I'm concerned that place is open mic night at the Improv.

If you are going to work at ASA, you better have a healthy sense of humor, because it is the only thing that will get you through the day.

LOL! So true!!!! :laugh:

 

[OpsCheckGood]

The following is a true story which happened to ME a couple of years ago!

Doing a ferry flight to MCN. Get to the A/C there is nothing wrong with the plane. No MELs, we have a good release. CAT A ferry flight (MTC convenience only) right? As soon as we rotate ut of ATL the "tower" tells us to call our dispatcher. Wierd, but o.k. Dispatcher: Did you guys take off already?
Me: yes
Dispatcher: o.k. "cool" call me when you get to MCN

upon arrival in MCN I call. Dispatcher asks is we had a ferry permit when we left. I explained we did not but one wasn't required since it was a CAT A ferry. He said o.k. "just wanted to make sure we were on the same page." An hour later sitting in MCN ops waiting on a DHD flight home my phone rings. It's a different dispatcher. She said "captain, I just wanted to give you a heads up that your dispatcher is filling out paperwork on you saying you took off w/out a permit!"

I filled out my paperwork on the flight to ATL complete with a copy of the release and quotes from the ferry flight section of the FOM. By the time I landed in ATL I had two voice mails form the chiefs saying the FEDs were in their office!

I was legal, and MUCH thanks to the lady dispatcher that gave me the heads up so I could have my ducks in a row when I walked in. But don't give me the "dispatchers are the victim" crap here because my 9 years in this business have taught me that some of the ones on "my own team" are the most dangerous.

 

[fltdspx]

I welcome a dispatcher to come ride with me on a five leg day. Before you leave to ride, make sure the trip has the typical two aircraft swaps. Sounds simple and easy but those two swaps equate to two concourse changes, dealing with other peoples crap aircraft that they have delayed causing you now to inherit their delay, dealing with multiple crap mels like APU inop, and putting up with aircraft with no crew closets. No crew closets require you to shove four days of crap into the overheads (which smashes everything in your bag and scrapes your bag up) or put it in the back and risk it getting lost.

You say quit whining and that stuff does not seem like a big deal....well, come out on a 13.9 hour duty day when its cold and raining and there are hours of ground delay programs. With the delays, you are doing all that crap above on a compressed schedule trying to get somewhere so you can go to sleep for your required 8 hours of rest.

90% of that is not your fault...but it all begins with the simple aircraft swap. Your smarta$$ flightinfo signoff (at the bottom of each post) about "keeping the aircraft" equates to the "ghost" smartass remarks on the radio. Touche.

gong on a four leg day with you would be fine however when you go to work you have no idea if you get to keep the aircraft or not it's a crap shoot, so that's what it should be. If I'm not mistaken after talking to a few IPs I was told that when you guys come into ATL expect a swap if you don't get one feel lucky. I'm not say it's fair or not that is not my job.. I am a dispatcher not a aircraft swapper. I agree that IF most of you could keep your aircraft then just maybe you guys /gals could actually get out on time ( of course then again there is the ATL ramp to deal with. Dispatchers get frustrated too maybe not on the same level but it does cause us to have to do extra work once again it's not our call on the swaps ..sometimes it does work out but as you all are aware most of the time is doesn't. What you guys also don’t realize is we have 1 to 5 cities a night red tagged for a/c to overnight in that particular city for mtc…so hey guess what if you bid the lines/trips that overnight in BTR, CAE, MEI, and SHV and cities like that then more then likely you will have to take a particular a/c there for mtc on the overnight. And if you have to swap before then, the sector manager is trying to set up the plot to get that a/c there towards the end of the night. Hell we are still trying to catch up from all the crap you wrote up during contract negotations..so when you get swapped thank your little ALPA buddy for writing up the damn ice drawer or the coffee pot that we have to fix in SHV!!!!

 

[XPOO]

Perhaps things would be a little easier if Delta could see the crew links and try to park crews as close to possible as the aircraft they will be swapping into. UA does this in ORD as much as possible and I think the ORD crews have noticed over the past year.

 

[jke406]

gong on a four leg day with you would be fine however when you go to work you have no idea if you get to keep the aircraft or not it's a crap shoot, so that's what it should be. If I'm not mistaken after talking to a few IPs I was told that when you guys come into ATL expect a swap if you don't get one feel lucky. I'm not say it's fair or not that is not my job.. I am a dispatcher not a aircraft swapper. I agree that IF most of you could keep your aircraft then just maybe you guys /gals could actually get out on time ( of course then again there is the ATL ramp to deal with. Dispatchers get frustrated too maybe not on the same level but it does cause us to have to do extra work once again it's not our call on the swaps ..sometimes it does work out but as you all are aware most of the time is doesn't. What you guys also don’t realize is we have 1 to 5 cities a night red tagged for a/c to overnight in that particular city for mtc…so hey guess what if you bid the lines/trips that overnight in BTR, CAE, MEI, and SHV and cities like that then more then likely you will have to take a particular a/c there for mtc on the overnight. And if you have to swap before then, the sector manager is trying to set up the plot to get that a/c there towards the end of the night. Hell we are still trying to catch up from all the crap you wrote up during contract negotations..so when you get swapped thank your little ALPA buddy for writing up the damn ice drawer or the coffee pot that we have to fix in SHV!!!!

Paragraphs, punctuation, and spell check. They're your friends. At least they should be. Lay off the hooch, my man.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

But don't give me the "dispatchers are the victim" crap here because my 9 years in this business have taught me that some of the ones on "my own team" are the most dangerous.

They'll throw you under the bus right or wrong with an ASAP report. Nothing you can do about it.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

90% of that is not your fault...but it all begins with the simple aircraft swap. Your smarta$$ flightinfo signoff (at the bottom of each post) about "keeping the aircraft" equates to the "ghost" smartass remarks on the radio. Touche.

Varmit, i feel your pain especially on a 5 leg day through wx in atl. Yet, you are barking down the wrong tree. Dispatch has nothing to do with A/C rotations, aircraft routing and the sector teams do. If you call your dispatcher and request a swap they ask the sector mgr/ aircraft routing to see if it is feasible.

MTC req. dictate aircraft rotations with little to no input from crew scheduling. This is how it is done for most airlines including the majors.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Hell we are still trying to catch up from all the crap you wrote up during contract negotations..so when you get swapped thank your little ALPA buddy for writing up the damn ice drawer or the coffee pot that we have to fix in SHV!!!!

BC,

I was kinda with you right up until here. I don't appreciate your characterization of us and our "little ALPA buddies". It smacks of the typical GO pilot bashing we hear about.

Besides, your PAFCA negotiations aren't going so well either, and if you guys wanted to shake things up, many guys like me would support you without question. So don't give us crap about a so-called write up campaign during our negotiations. It's folly to make stupid public accusations you can't prove about illegal job actions, especially when some of us know who you are.

We ARE on the same team. Let's start acting like it!

 

[fltdspx]

BC,

I was kinda with you right up until here. I don't appreciate your characterization of us and our "little ALPA buddies". It smacks of the typical GO pilot bashing we hear about.

Besides, your PAFCA negotiations aren't going so well either, and if you guys wanted to shake things up, many guys like me would support you without question. So don't give us crap about a so-called write up campaign during our negotiations. It's folly to make stupid public accusations you can't prove about illegal job actions, especially when some of us know who you are.

We ARE on the same team. Let's start acting like it!

WF

You are taking it the wrong way. The routing of A/C is due to having to fix write ups regardless how or why there were written up. All I am saying is that the more that gets written up on A/Cs then it appears the more A/C swapping has to be done to route that A/C to a MTC base for repairs. What illegal job actions are you referring to? I know nothing of such going on here and whether you know who I am or not makes no bearing on my opinion.

 

[fltdspx]

Varmit, i feel your pain especially on a 5 leg day through wx in atl. Yet, you are barking down the wrong tree. Dispatch has nothing to do with A/C rotations, aircraft routing and the sector teams do. If you call your dispatcher and request a swap they ask the sector mgr/ aircraft routing to see if it is feasible.

MTC req. dictate aircraft rotations with little to no input from crew scheduling. This is how it is done for most airlines including the majors.

Thank you very much..now I know someone out there knows how the system works. It may not be the best but that's what we have to work with. I can say that I do ask and also try to come up with a plan for the sector manager in order to keep the A/C..we are all on the same team lets try to work together

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Flitdspx,

To put your original question into perspective:
The cost to repair a broken aircraft – Thousands
A little professional courtesy - Priceless

 

[buxflyr]

No, I never do.....even when I get the 1000th straight release without an alternate when one is required, or has an alternate when one is not remotely required - causing me to bump revenue passengers, or the wrong TLR info, etc, etc, etc.....

I am glad we arent the only ones dealing with this...

 

[MaceyHold]

...along with the smart comments at the end of EVERY SINGLE call

Haha...Hi pot, this is kettle. Just kidding a little here - we've been known to give it right back sometimes though, right.

Blue moon garnish with a slice of orange and a cigar

I'm disappointed...wasting that cigar. Why not a nice smooth Balvenie! :beer:

Hey buddy, glad to see things haven't changed too much.

 

[fltdspx]

Haha...Hi pot, this is kettle. Just kidding a little here - we've been known to give it right back sometimes though, right.


I'm disappointed...wasting that cigar. Why not a nice smooth Balvenie! :beer:

Hey buddy, glad to see things haven't changed too much.

yea man things have not changed since you left just more interesting. Trust me I will have the Balvenie this weekend. So when are you coming back?

 

[MaceyHold]

So when are you coming back?

I think I used up my one free come back...although, I still have a house there, so ya never know.

I'll stop hijacking this thread now. Talk to ya latah

 

[Varmint]

Thank you very much..now I know someone out there knows how the system works. It may not be the best but that's what we have to work with. I can say that I do ask and also try to come up with a plan for the sector manager in order to keep the A/C..we are all on the same team lets try to work together

I throw up the BS flag on the swap crap. I spent five years dispatching at two different national airlines and I know how the system normally works. MX rotation/coordination and the swaps are expected. However, you forget, I have access to the plot now also on ourasa. When you have me in an aircraft that is scheduled to overnight in a non mx station and I am having to swap to an aircraft overnighting in another non mx station there is no reason I shouldn't be able to keep the airplane to keep the passengers on time.

If you don't like pilots asking dispatchers for assistance maybe you need to rethink your job. Your job, and my job, when I am acting in the capacity of a dispatcher is not only to share in the responsibility for the safe operation of that flight, but is to also act as a liason for that flight crew to coordinate operational control issues/concerns on the ground. After all, in the cockpit we don't have half the resources that you do. Do you not agree?

 

[Varmint]

Varmit, i feel your pain especially on a 5 leg day through wx in atl. Yet, you are barking down the wrong tree. Dispatch has nothing to do with A/C rotations, aircraft routing and the sector teams do. If you call your dispatcher and request a swap they ask the sector mgr/ aircraft routing to see if it is feasible.

MTC req. dictate aircraft rotations with little to no input from crew scheduling. This is how it is done for most airlines including the majors.

Swaps can be done at opportune or non-opportune times. Swapping for maintenance or for operational reasons makes sense when there is a natural crew swap (ie the aircraft comes in from a nap...crew goes home and another one takes over). Pay attention to the plot board on ourasa next time you are swapped. You will see that these swaps are occuring more randomly than for mx reasons. We used to have the ability to adjust the plot the day before to keep crews with aircraft and take into account maintenance routing for the next day. Granted, it was not always possible to do, it was possible alot more than it is happening here.

I do have to say things have been getting better the last couple of weeks. I think Brad Holt has been making some changes for the better.

 

[fltdspx]

I throw up the BS flag on the swap crap. I spent five years dispatching at two different national airlines and I know how the system normally works. MX rotation/coordination and the swaps are expected. However, you forget, I have access to the plot now also on ourasa. When you have me in an aircraft that is scheduled to overnight in a non mx station and I am having to swap to an aircraft overnighting in another non mx station there is no reason I shouldn't be able to keep the airplane to keep the passengers on time.

If you don't like pilots asking dispatchers to do their job then quit. Your job, and my job, when I am acting in the capacity of a dispatcher is not only to share in the responsibility for the safe operation of that flight, but to also act as a liason for that flight crew and coordinate things on the ground we can't do from the air. That way we can provide the best customer service possible. Do you not agree?

First of all you can throw any flag you like. I am telling you what goes on in ASA dispatch not others that you may have dispatched in.

I don't come to work and schedule crews on aircrafts it's all ready set up and I am sorry but I don't have the time to search every single flight on my desk to see if each crew can keep there aircraft.

What I am saying saying is that when a crew calls in and ask to keep there aircraft we ( dispatchers ) despite what you believe do ask the sector managers if it's possible. sometime looking a the plot one can see if aircrafts are tagged for mtc. Even if it's not tagged by swapping it may run two flights late. So would you rather run two flights late or one?

I really don't know what else to tell you if you think you have a better way, by all means send a suggestion in to the duty managers or better yet the director. I am all for running flights on time.

I agree giving good customer service should be every ones #1 priority, however by looking at the day to day operation I sometimes question just what the heck ppl are thinking

 

[fltdspx]

Swaps can be done at opportune or non-opportune times. Swapping for maintenance or for operational reasons makes sense when there is a natural crew swap (ie the aircraft comes in from a nap...crew goes home and another one takes over). Pay attention to the plot board on ourasa next time you are swapped. You will see that these swaps are occuring more randomly than for mx reasons. We used to have the ability to adjust the plot the day before to keep crews with aircraft and take into account maintenance routing for the next day. Granted, it was not always possible to do, it was possible alot more than it is happening here.

I do have to say things have been getting better the last couple of weeks. I think Brad Holt has been making some changes for the better.

Varmint..your still missing the point. Dispatch has nothing to do with the swaps except when we HELP you in trying to keep your aircraft when you guys all in wanting to keep your aircraft.