PSA Classes

[Iceman21]

Try Men's Warehouse. You can get a good suit there and it won't break you.

Which Men's Wearhouse do you shop at? My wallet walked out of there 417.00 lighter getting my suit for my interview in DAY. Damn nice suit but sure not cheap.

 

[OneTuffGuy]

To continue the OTG bashing....

I didn't actaully track it. It was a joke. Apparently the smiley face was lost on you. And for reference *IF* my app did really get there 1 hour before I posted it only took hours not days to get back to me. Looking forward to actually getting a shot at a job there.

Oh that was a great BASH i am so scared I am going to go crawl into a corner and kick my own rear.

 

[Crzipilot]

OTG,

Well first I won't just STFU.....and ya...I'm a j4j guy..get over it. I'm as much to blame for this *hit hole of a union as YOU are. Along with the direction the industry has taken. Now If you'd like to compare history and where each comes from.....I'd gladly put my background up against yours any time. You might be a tad surprised where some of us come from. And what we've gone through to be where we were and where we are today.
Ahh but I won't do it on the net, behind a scrn name....you can find me wandering CLT tomorrow though.

 

[BeCareful!]

Maybe you should STFU and remember where you came from the only people that ruin this industry are the pilots who think just cause they flew a big jet they can come and take take take from express pilots. Now get a clue and leave us regional pilots alone to eat our noodles and bitch about how nice it was before jets for jobs was created.

You're probably the guy who writes various "Jets 4 Jerks" notes all over the cockpit. (Hey, PSAChiefPilot, the next time I have a Fed on my JS, I'll be sure to point some of this graffitti out.)


But, back to the disgruntled man of the hour here, OTG, saying things like "people that ruin this industry are the pilots who think just cause they flew a big jet they can come and take take take from express pilots" has got to be the lamest thing I've read on this site for some time. How about PFT? GIA? Greedy guys who want to work until 65? Are you freekin' nutz? You think J4J has ruined this industry? You must be the most short-sighted numb nutz ever. Here you were at the powerhouse of all airlines, PSA....right? " Now get a clue and leave us regional pilots alone to eat our noodles and bitch about how nice it was before jets for jobs was created" Yeah....all was well before you had brand new jets dropping from the Great White North. Your fleet of DO328's was aging nicely, and I'm sure bankrupt Dornier was going to ramp up support for those babys soon.

You're days were numbered. You just wanted it to rain jets on you with no sacrafice on you part at all. Awe Gee, your's is truely a plight to behold. Look at poor, poor OTG. Your "looser factor" is off the scale, muthertrucker........

 

[OneTuffGuy]

Ok explain to me and everyone else why it is fair that a Pilot just cause they worked at Mainline can come to PSA and bid higher then a Pilot who has been at PSA for 18 years ? There are J4J people who have been at US Airways since 1999 bidding senior to people who have been at psa since 1998 that is a load of crap. Just cause you flew a big shiny piece of metal does not mean you are the main gunner. No I do not write anything in the flight deck since that is what we call it not a cockpit, I am too busy trying to sleep. Look it is just this simple no Dornier Pilot likes J4J and we never will no matter how many Jets PSA gets. One more thing how is CLT since you where awarded it as a base illegally? Since you are so mature that you flew the rest of a four day in silence when it came to that topic. From a psychological point of view it acutally shows you are scared to talk about the topic so you hide behind it instead.

 

[BeCareful!]

Who's flown what has nothing to do with anything. I find you're idea that it's because we've flown USAir mainline jets that we believe we are entitled utterly ridiculous. It's called SCOPE, and apparently you've never had any.

I have no idea what you're saying about CLT......haven't been there in weeks.

Don't know about the scilent four day either......Oh, I see you are talking to someone else. Ok, never mind.

As for slotted bidding, I think PSA pilots did very well on that; 70 seat jets should have never been allowed in your hands.

Personally, Mr. Downtrodden-somehow-screwed-by-JohnnyO, I think you can have this thread. It's all you, Brother.

 

[d328pilot]

Scope? Funny I dont see scope anywhere in the alpa constitution anywhere. However, i do see seniority. Totally destroying the foundation upon which a union is built for the benefit of less than 100 people... Brilliance. No wonder our union is in such termoil. And people complain about the "greed" of management. lol

 

[BeCareful!]

Those who don't understand SCOPE.........are newbies to this game.

Listen up, Beavis: I worked at a carrier with a SCOPE clause. It was part of MY contract! (I know yous at PSA don't really require Management to abide by the CONTRACT, but.......) If they had busted that SCOPE so that YOU could see all the windfall benifit of millions of $$ worth of these RJ's, and left me unemployed, I'd be even more pissed than I already am! (And, yeah, the FAA really did want more experienced pilots here to handle the rapid transition to jets)

The only thing ALPA has done right is J4J......the rest has been a mess.

Don't fret, though; I don't expect you to understand. I was a regional ho before I risked everything to go to the majors.....I know where you're comin' from, Brother. ....believe it or not.

 

[d328pilot]

You are funny. Experienced???? care to discuss how many j4j have got letters vs. the PSA guys??? P56? Your management respects your contract? Minimum fleet count sound familiar? No more concessions? No furlough clause? Dare i even say pension?? Full pay to the last day? Not one nickle, not one dime? You really have showed them.

YOU are the reason ALPA is in the crisis it is in. ALPA only has to lose one DFR lawsuit and the $$$$$ is gone. There is a lot more than 1 outstanding DFR lawsuits last time I counted.

You did say one thing right. You RISKED it all to go to a major. Guess what, you made a bad choice. You should just be happy that you got a job straight into the left seat but that wasnt good enough. Hopefully with the merger the J4J program will be scrapped. Realistically, if an outside invesor picks up the leases then u arent really "paying" for them anymore with your pay cuts right? After all, isnt that why you are "entitled" to slots?

Continue to try justify your greed about how you are "entitled" to violate everything that a union stands for. I doubt you will find many people here that care.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

You RISKED it all to go to a major. Guess what, you made a bad choice.

lololol ROFL.

Yup. How dare he have earned the privilege of working for a major airline that was hiring 100 pilots a month and buying a new airbus every week. He should OBVIOUSLY have used a crystal ball and stayed at the commuters plowing around in a Saab or ERJ. That would have been a much better decision.

Yup. Sure. Thanks for the tip Nostradamas.

lol. you guys crack me up.

 

[BeCareful!]

Beavis-

I said it was an FAA desire.....are they always right? No....enough said.

I'll be the first to admit there have been some sad excuses for pilots come through, but then both sides here have thier morons. (I'm not one of them, and I doubt you are, either).

>>>YOU are the reason ALPA is in the crisis it is in.<<<<

Oh, so it's all my fault? OK, well that makes me feel better. So, if I resign (pending) it'll all be OK. Good.

>>>Realistically, if an outside invesor picks up the leases then u arent really "paying" for them anymore with your pay cuts right? After all, isnt that why you are "entitled" to slots?<<<<<

No, no, no.....and......NO. What is it about SCOPE that you don't understand? It ain't mouthwash, goober......

>>> Continue to try justify your greed<<<<<

MY GREED???? WTF, over? You think you should have all these new jets, and I should work at Home Depot??? What about YOUR greed???

>>>>>about how you are "entitled" to violate everything that a union stands for.<<<<<

Jets-4-Jobs IS EVERYTING A UNION SHOULD STAND FOR! I was a dues paying ALPA member at a carrier with a pretty strong SCOPE clause. What the F*&% do you think that clause was for?? Wallpaper? It was to protect MY INTERESTS, not your's. I'm sorry that your super strong ALPA UNIT didn't negotiate SCOPE for you.....maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[mamba20]

I guess it was only going to be so long before scope or PFT came up. . . at least this thread lasted 6 pages.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well I typed out a lengthy reply, just for my connection to go down...prob. for the best...as it was a rehash of all the crap I've been saying.
#1 Both sides have been screwed in this deal. final.

#2...the J4J program. Instituted 'cause Groups saying mainline couldn't fly those jets, and they needed them or ALL of us were gone.....(including the dork pilots) Alpa agreed with the contigency that 50%of the jobs went to furloughees.

#3 You didn't have to agree to the J4J protocols....it was offered and not forced.

#4 Talk about greed??? Why did midlevel capts and up get a 20-30k pay raise, and f/o's get...what 2-5k pay raises for the jets??? Seems someone was greedy.

#5 Greed. What about certain capts boosting and showing paychecks iwth 120-170 hours credit month after month??? If they were to throttle that down wouldn't some more PSA f/o's be able to upgrade get the time and get out of here??? (oh wait, you said that's a bad decesion to want to goto a "major" SWA/JB/FDX/UPS etc. Hell at 170/month that's almost 3 capts worth of flying.

Me not wanting to talk about the subject??? Nahhh I talk about it all the time, and listen to ones opionions and take it from that. But when a newbie (less than a year in the aviation industry, here first airline) is continuing said conversation below 10k, while getting vectored for the LDA into DCA with the wx to crap...ya....it's time for him to STFU and od his job. Wasn't the time or place. And with other comments he made later in the day, well it was telling he knew of not much of the labor history of the industry, and I explained to him a few things and told him to do a little bit more research before he made assumptions.

As for the J4J agreement, read your LOA.. .it states it will remain in effect only during which time the J4J agreement is in effect. So uhmmm..if J4J goes away...what happens???? Your going to negotiate higher pay scales and be willing to walk out if you don't get them? Ok.....

 

[ThrottleJockey1]

Take a step back and look at the big picture.

I hope the big picture is seen here.
Does anybody think these are the only problems facing PSA? Does getting the seniority list set the way PSA originals want it, fix the company? NO Does J4J's getting recalled at their original pay before their lives we rueined, fix the company? NO
This thread was started by a pilot wanting to know how to get hired here at PSA. I hope he has read this thread to it's completion and thinks about it!

 

[Crzipilot]

TJ....

No the big picture hasn't been lost. As for the most part I enjoy flying here, and the crews that are here. I'd say I have had no problem with the majority of the PSA guys I've flown with (right and left seat). with any company you'll find b****** in one form or another, otherwise we wouldn't be happy. It's all what you make of it.
Somone looking at a regional to start at, I'd recommend this place without a problem. Just I'd add the caveat that they do have DAY as a base.........

 

[CRJDog]

You are funny. Experienced???? care to discuss how many j4j have got letters vs. the PSA guys??? P56? Your management respects your contract? Minimum fleet count sound familiar? No more concessions? No furlough clause? Dare i even say pension?? Full pay to the last day? Not one nickle, not one dime? You really have showed them.

YOU are the reason ALPA is in the crisis it is in. ALPA only has to lose one DFR lawsuit and the $$$$$ is gone. There is a lot more than 1 outstanding DFR lawsuits last time I counted.

Actually the crisis at ALPA was started by ALPA itself trying to protect and "Take care of the big guys" at the expense of the Regionals. ALPA does not give a rat's @ss about Express carriers, they never did.

I also agree with the first statement. It amazes me that some (not all) J4J guys whine and complain and cry about how sh!tty things at PSA are while we are represented by the same spineless union. You guys get to waltz on the property with a captain slot that I have to wait years for. Suck it up and shut up or vacate your posterior from my seat!!

My .08 cents!

 

[hankhill]

OneTuffGuy,

I'm no longer part of the "USAir Family" but it disgusts me when I read the crap you write.

You obviously have a few issues, and it may make you feel better to spew your venom, but you come across as a bitter cry-baby when you write nothing but hateful posts.

Good luck to you finding future employment. Your great attitude will ensure that you remain where you hate to be.

hank

 

[Jetjockey21]

All you J4J bashers

We are here because of scope. CHQ is paying American 1 million a month because of scope. Scope protects mainline jobs and from what most FO's tell me, they what to work at a mainline somewhere. I don't hear too many saying they want to be regional lifers. There is fewer than 100 J4J here, it could have been alot more. You guys just want it all more planes, pay, upgrades without any sacrifice. Where would you be without the jets, or worse what if they merged you with piedmont and alleghany. The ride is not always free.If the merger works out and the flow through stays in place you guys will reap the rewards of the J4J program more than we have. We get to sit reserve so you can upgrade right to a line. I think you will see alot of movement post merger and the ones who will benifit the most will be the new hires who may see upgrade in less than two years and what was thier sacrifice, right place right time that's all good for them. I think that once you make it to a major and I hope you all do, that you would expect your union to protect your job. Because management would love nothing more than to keep bringing on more and larger RJ's at the crap wages we fly them for.

As far as the bashing the J4J guys about flying ability. I for one has never been violated, but have had several FO's try and fly into P56. Yeah there are a few J4J here that have done some stupid stuff but I think the majority of us are an asset to Psa. We have brought alot of experience that can benefit the whole pilot group. Let's not talk about the PSA guy that tried several times to make FL410 and get the horn and shaker not once but like 5 times, or the guy that took months to pass his ride or the guy who on every descent uses spoilers and keeps the power up. I have had few if any problems with any of the guys/gals I have flown with other than lack of experience with some newbies which can be expected. I will not sit here though and be bad mouthed by a few that think they should have it all.

Oh, I'll get out of your seat when you get off my aircraft!

 

[328dude]

All you J4J bashers

We are here because of scope. CHQ is paying American 1 million a month because of scope. Scope protects mainline jobs and from what most FO's tell me, they what to work at a mainline somewhere. I don't hear too many saying they want to be regional lifers. There is fewer than 100 J4J here, it could have been alot more. You guys just want it all more planes, pay, upgrades without any sacrifice. Where would you be without the jets, or worse what if they merged you with piedmont and alleghany. The ride is not always free.If the merger works out and the flow through stays in place you guys will reap the rewards of the J4J program more than we have. We get to sit reserve so you can upgrade right to a line. I think you will see alot of movement post merger and the ones who will benifit the most will be the new hires who may see upgrade in less than two years and what was thier sacrifice, right place right time that's all good for them. I think that once you make it to a major and I hope you all do, that you would expect your union to protect your job. Because management would love nothing more than to keep bringing on more and larger RJ's at the crap wages we fly them for.

As far as the bashing the J4J guys about flying ability. I for one has never been violated, but have had several FO's try and fly into P56. Yeah there are a few J4J here that have done some stupid stuff but I think the majority of us are an asset to Psa. We have brought alot of experience that can benefit the whole pilot group. Let's not talk about the PSA guy that tried several times to make FL410 and get the horn and shaker not once but like 5 times, or the guy that took months to pass his ride or the guy who on every descent uses spoilers and keeps the power up. I have had few if any problems with any of the guys/gals I have flown with other than lack of experience with some newbies which can be expected. I will not sit here though and be bad mouthed by a few that think they should have it all.

Oh, I'll get out of your seat when you get off my aircraft!

Jet jock:

Just want to clerify a few things.

1. In regards to the P-56 issue. 1 original PSA pilot violated it. 11 J4J's pilots violated it.

2. In regards to the FL410 issue. Granted, that was dumb, but it was dealt with. 5 times though is inaccurate data. It was only twice.

3. What about the J4J guys that NEVER passed a checkride? Especially the oral's.

4. Who's this guy with the spoler issue. Same can be said with you J4J'bers.

Here's my list of goodies.

1. I can name atleast 4 Captains that must be called 'Captain".
2. P-56 issue, but we already covered that.
3. J4J Captain that had a Inop APU and shut one down one the ground, then shut one down in flight as a precaution. Then shut the other onw down while taxing to save fuel! PHL was real happy sending them a huffer cart on 'E'.
4. To the J4J guy that sent a list of demands on what days he would work, what days he needed off, and that all the trips had to have late shows and early returns. If the company didn't like it, then he would resign. He tried to back peddle, but he has since departed. Wat was that about entitlement?
5. J4J Cpt running around being the fashion police.
6. The amount of no-shows compared to original PSA guys in astounding.

I could go on and on, but whats the point. I don't have issues with you, but don't start this entitlement crap and "We have plenty of experince to bring here". Sure, if your and FO. Just do your freakin job and go home.

Oh, I'll get out of your seat when you get off my aircraft!. So, you complain about us, then make a statement like that? If your going to preach it, I would atleast expect, with your EXPERIENCE and all, to practice it.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Off Topic:

Its been a few years since I was at PSA. But the fashion police comment got me chuckling.

I remember a guy who wore driving gloves in the Dornier.
Another guy who wore sunglasses in the crew-room.
One guy wore black sneakers in lew of dress shoes.
There was a pilot who wore a backpack to work.
Yet another guy whose hat-badge, wings, and luggage-tag were mainline (no express logo). He tried to woo the ladies in the terminal.

I wasn't at PSA long, but some days it felt more like a cartoon about an airline than it did like an airline.

Ok back to your pissing contest...

 

[Jetjockey21]

328 Dude

The seat comment was to in response to CRJDog's comment. And wasn't it Capt America that shut both down in Phl

 

[DorkProp]

I try not to get too worked up about things, but here's my contribution to this never-ending discussion...

Many of the J4Js at PSA were at mainline for less than two years, and worked at a regional prior to that. I just fail to see how they can feel so entitled to everything they have received from PSA. It's not like this industry was built on THEIR backs. They weren't the ones hired in 1988, enduring two furloughs. These are regular Joe's, many of whom have never sat in the left seat of any aircraft until coming to PSA, and the sense of entitlement drives me crazy.

My blood never boiled so much as the time I was sitting hot reserve and some hot-shot J4J comes storming into the crew room loudly complaining that his line had only 14 days off.

 

[328dude]

328 Dude

The seat comment was to in response to CRJDog's comment. And wasn't it Capt America that shut both down in Phl

Was it? Well there you have it. A bunch of diffrent variations out there for that one. Wouldn't surprise me.

Like I said, I don't care. Just do your freaking job and go home.

Don't think for a second that it dosen't tick me off that I'm still reserve. It does, but there's is nothing I can do about it. However, like DorkProp mentioned, it also chaps my arse when they complain about the lines and we are still on reserve.

I've been on reserve for 3 years now. To me its a way of life and I have learned to work the system. I wouldn't know any other way. It could only get better I guess.

See you in CLT.

 

[mullet]

I can name atleast 4 Captains that must be called 'Captain".

Awesome, I want to be called Captain too. Is there a box we check on our bid package to make this happen? Next time you see me in the crew room PLEASE let me know who these nipples are! Oops, Captain Nipples are!

 

[CRJDog]

"Oh, I'll get out of your seat when you get off my aircraft!"

I said SOME not ALL J4J's are crybaby little biatches. Since you fired back with that lame @ss comment, you must be one of them.

Also, I agree with Dorkprop on his post.

 

[Crzipilot]

How I love these debates behind scrn names. It's funny, as I have YET to have one individual in a crew room or otherwise, say to my face they wish the J4J's weren't there, or shouldn't be there or are ***holes etc. In fact as I was flying as f/o, many of the PSA capts stated how they figured the j4j program was well not the best, but liveable and both sides gave something for something. In fact this was told to me by one of the ALPA capt. reps...interesting.
In addition, with the my airplane comment. If you go back through the SEC filings, or the filings with the BK court. It will be found is on court record that the pilot pension was terminated and such monies were used to by RJ's....so uhmmm...basically the mainline pilots monies ponied up for the shiny new jets.
Yes it was Capt. America that shut it down in PHL.
Yes it's a PSA capt. which has CAPTAIN printed on his checks and such.
As to the P-56 issue, well I've had 2 f/o's try and run me into it...once taking off of 33. How do you figure, well as one is doing after take off flows, and or radio's etc etc.....anyways, many different reasons and variables, and unless you have each instance don't generalize. Though I did hear a J4J'r flew over the whitehouse??? Anyone know if that's true? LOL

Now to make ones blood boil, all it takes is seeing a PSA capt. gleefully announcing how they did 120hrs/150hrs/170hrs of credit for the month. Is he not taking away a capt. seat as well as a J4J'r by doing the work of 2-4 pilots???? but his excuse was it's hard to wean himself off the extra dough......poor excuse.

Also why is it, I get more f/o's thankfull that their capt. is a j4j guy. As well as many f/a's that say......I enjoy flying with the j4j guys lots more than the PSA guys..... I can give you the reasons if you want, but rather have you guess at their reasoning first. (And no it isn't the f/a trying to butter me up to get into my pants)

And dork, well maybe some were only at PSA for less than 2 years, other weren't.....but where were they and for how long prior to mainline??? And uhmmm..how many airlines/years have you put in since your first job?? Or is PSA your first airline and you've put in the long hard battle of 3 years here?
Either way, my stance as always been, both sides have gotten screwed, and well.....personally I think it's just the warm up dance as there is much more screwing to be handed down.

 

[sluminginpit]

What a conversation! The attitudes here will continue to jepordize the industry until we retire and for may years beyond.

Critizing pilot groups (i.e regionals vs. majors) for certain pilot actions is insane. Any type of plane can crash and well expeienced people can make mistakes!

Being original PSA I do not always belive in J4J, but understand they need to make a living and feed thier famlies. What I can't stand and will not accept is the attitude of the younger mainline pilots. Had 911 not happended I would be at the majors now along with most of the other PSA guys who complain about your self entitlement. Drop the attitude, we all know how to fly! The FAA wrote the time mins for pilots and all the PSA guys qualify to fly jets. The J4J guys seem to forget they did'nt always fly jets, why should you be givin the chance and not us. Both groups need each other, how long would mainline survive without express feed. There is nothing wrong for younger pilots wanting natural career progression, if not why bother.

We are all in this together, get over egos (both groups) collect your paycheck, save for retirement, enjoy your family, drink a beer and live a prospurous life!

2 quotes to live by.

1. "Were not here for along time, were here for a good time"

2. "Work to live, don't live to work"

 

[328dude]

How I love these debates behind scrn names. It's funny, as I have YET to have one individual in a crew room or otherwise, say to my face they wish the J4J's weren't there, or shouldn't be there or are ***holes etc.

I have no problem voicing my concerns to you. It's no secret who I am. Next time, come on over and we will have this little discusson.

Look forward to it.

Later,
Box

 

[mullet]

Yes it's a PSA capt. which has CAPTAIN printed on his checks and such.
As to the P-56 issue, well I've had 2 f/o's try and run me into it...once taking off of 33. .

You forgot- Captain 'Dirty Boy' ATP.
Glad you were able to correct their mistakes. Thats why there are 2 of us up there. Any times the f/o's saved you from busting the p-56 or busting an altitude? We all have our bad apples. F/os saying thank god I'm flying with PSAer or JFJer, I think I would too, if I was stuck flying with Dirty Boy, Captian America, or our small group of J4jer's that are still in Captain training.
Glad they enjoy flying with you, keep up the good work.

 

[Jetjockey21]

328 & Dork

Like I said I get along with most everyone, But I won't sit idle and watch you guys put us down. I feel your pain I'm on reserve too and it sucks. And no Dog I'm not one of the ones who bitch alot. I do my job well and go home and enjoy what days off I actually have. 328 if you've been here that long why are you on reserve or are you one of the ones chasing the Heavy 701 around. And read my post again, like I said I wish you all get on at a major in the future best of luck. Trust me I put in my dues for many years before I flew a jet, I wish I was not here taking one of your spots and back at mainline but life is not always fair and our unions agreed to this deal so we must live with it like it or not. We pilots are our own worst enemies because everyone just cares about themselves and what they should have and fail to see the big picture of what's happening to this industry.