Proposed List of 100 Netjets Crew Bases

[Gator1999]

A good weekend in Vegas could cost 5K...I'm pulling for a GREAT WEEKEND in Vegas!

 

[Captzaahlie]

After spending a few days in CMH and after speaking to a number of pre-rat guys I really think this IBB thing is NOT going to pass.

Too many changes and the pre-rat guys get really nothing in return.

Many questions need to be answered and explained.

Questions like----- why are BED, LGA, JFK, HPN and TEB all bases yet MHT, which current has about 50+ guys using it is excluded from the list of bases?

True it can be used as an HBA but this is just to set it up to be cut come 2010 or whenever the contract will become renegotiation.

Many people are very upset about this whole package.

everyone knows the MHT guys are the trouble makers......

Just yanking your chain man relax

 

[Dr Pepper]

Anybody think that all of this is just a tease? RTS and BO keep saying that they want this to be the best "job in aviation". How can they claim that with this stuff that they give us. I havent read anything about the regional bidding, that was so heavily discussed. And why all of this (the showing, the phone surveys), when this is supposed to be out to is in a month.

I like the increase in bases and the rumors about more pay, but other than that, it doesnt look all that good. I like the current 7/7 and the reserve option.

Regions and region bidding is dead. The company could not afford what we were charging, so they dropped it (according to BO).

 

[172driver]

Hell, the package could have a bj clause where once a year a selected pilot would have to give a bj to a netjets manager and in exchange for such service he/she would receive a 100k bonus.. I bet it would pass

I might even give two bj's for $100K! I could buy a lot of Listerine for that kind of cash.

 

[RNObased]

I am averaging 15 days a month on the reserve now, and I betting you won't work 15 days every month on the new reserve according to BO.

So again tell me...why should we pass on this option and wait 2-3 more years with no pay raise? 6k more a yr means I cap out my 401k and Social Security earlier in the yr...possibly by mid august. That is 500 a month...a pretty nice car. Again why would I pass up a free car for 2-3 years for working the same or less?

I bet you work every single one of those 15 days no matter what B.O. says.

So you think 6k a year before taxes is going to buy you a nice car???? Yikes. Your idea of a nice car and mine are obviously two different things. Let's try some simple math. 6000-401k money. So at 10% for easy math you now have 5400. Now let's say you are getting hit at around 25% for all the various taxes, SS, etc. Now you have $4050. Spread that over 24 pay periods and you get $168.75 per check. Or a whopping 337.50 a month. Hmmm....

 

[Diesel]

I find it funny that people are betting on the fact they won't work x amount of days. How about plan on worst case scenario and see where that takes you?

Talk about the wrong type of thinking. Then again its probably the same group of people that count perdiem as part of their income.

 

[skiandsurf]

after further review...

...and talking to the MEC and reading the union message boards, this IBB is looking better.

This is probably the best time to negotiate, with the huge profits that they are showing ($500 million in the first 6 months). You pre-rat guys talked so highly of BO and his Strong Union, that now you question him and his group.

The pre-rat guys really dont lose anything, as far as their HBAs. Still have MHT, SLO, and other po-dunk places. Post-rat guys gain 95 places....thats huge for 700 guys plus all newhires.

Schedules, now have "choices" between 7/7, 15 days and 18 days. As I understand it, the current reserve schedule, we have no idea about days off, except for the 4 H-days. The IBB allows for a true schedule by the 15th of the previous month. This is a good thing.

The only group that I hear that is not happy is junior check airman. Which I think is funny as hell. We (SICs) complain about all of the PICs jumping from plane to plane, and you PICs say, "its all about seniority. Get used to it." Well now they are the ones crying.

The deciding factor for everyone is going to be how much money is throw into the pile. I know that all pilot are whores, and they have a price. My gut feeling, is the money will buy there vote.

 

[RNObased]

...and talking to the MEC and reading the union message boards, this IBB is looking better.

This is probably the best time to negotiate, with the huge profits that they are showing ($500 million in the first 6 months). You pre-rat guys talked so highly of BO and his Strong Union, that now you question him and his group.

The pre-rat guys really dont lose anything, as far as their HBAs. Still have MHT, SLO, and other po-dunk places. Post-rat guys gain 95 places....thats huge for 700 guys plus all newhires.

Schedules, now have "choices" between 7/7, 15 days and 18 days. As I understand it, the current reserve schedule, we have no idea about days off, except for the 4 H-days. The IBB allows for a true schedule by the 15th of the previous month. This is a good thing.

The only group that I hear that is not happy is junior check airman. Which I think is funny as hell. We (SICs) complain about all of the PICs jumping from plane to plane, and you PICs say, "its all about seniority. Get used to it." Well now they are the ones crying.

The deciding factor for everyone is going to be how much money is throw into the pile. I know that all pilot are whores, and they have a price. My gut feeling, is the money will buy there vote.

SkiandSurf,
I'm glad you think this is a good deal. I'm still not sold, but will wait for the final document.

The fact that the senior guys question BO is a good thing. Following anyone blindly, about anything is a bad, bad idea. It doens't sound like you were around, when the fab 5 tried to shove the POSTA down our throats, thank god we questioned them on that thing.

FYI the profits aren't going away any time soon.

You are correct the money will make or break this. However I don't think 6k is a lot of money. Hopefully you don't either.

 

[gunfyter]

.As I understand it, the current reserve schedule, we have no idea about days off, except for the 4 H-days. The IBB allows for a true schedule by the 15th of the previous month. This is a good thing.

The only group that I hear that is not happy is junior check airman. .

Reserve Schedule is far superior to this "true" schedule. We have had a Fixed schedule in the past...and it was only 17 days. It SUCKED! It was the most horrible schedule we ever had.

Not one person I talk to likes the proposals in the IBB. Not just the check airmen. Hopefully we won't throw the Reservists UNDER THE BUS for a few $$$.

We should be working FEWER days per month, NOT more.

 

[imacdog]

We should be working FEWER days per month, NOT more.

Isn't that where the 15-day schedule comes into play? Not having to do 7-day trips doesn't sound too bad to go along with that.

 

[gunfyter]

No. I am already working 15 days per month and I have HH days. Plus you need to be in top 10% of seniority to hold the 15 day schedule.

 

[imacdog]

Plus you need to be in top 10% of seniority to hold the 15 day schedule.

Say whaaaa?

 

[netjetwife]

I totally agree that following blindly is a bad idea. An informed membership is a necessary component to getting the contract improvements the pilots have earned. From my front row seat (hint: not all negotiators are on the MEC or EBoard) I'm also keeping close tabs on the process. I see long days being put into IBB and I hear optimism.

Our families deserve 3 schedules to choose from and knowing the work days a month in advance is a plus. The jump from 5 to 95 could make a huge QOL difference for many of the NJ pilots/families. For their sake I hope the final deal is attractive enough to pass. I recognize that 6K can help the lowest paid pilots, but I don't see it swaying the better paid pilots who are satisfied with the 2005 CBA. Logic says those at the table know that it will take more.

Given that record profits reflect a motivated workforce; clearly, it is in the best interest of an IBB team to offer a package that generates enthusiasm and loyalty among all the pilots. My high hopes are based on the situation (the money is there) and belief that common sense will prevail. Ostensibly, upper management has now learned that it is more profitable and stable to work with the pilots rather than against them.

With high hopes and best wishes for all,
Netjetwife

 

[DO-82 driver]

...and talking to the MEC and reading the union message boards, this IBB is looking better.

This is probably the best time to negotiate, with the huge profits that they are showing ($500 million in the first 6 months). You pre-rat guys talked so highly of BO and his Strong Union, that now you question him and his group.

The pre-rat guys really dont lose anything, as far as their HBAs. Still have MHT, SLO, and other po-dunk places. Post-rat guys gain 95 places....thats huge for 700 guys plus all newhires.

Schedules, now have "choices" between 7/7, 15 days and 18 days. As I understand it, the current reserve schedule, we have no idea about days off, except for the 4 H-days. The IBB allows for a true schedule by the 15th of the previous month. This is a good thing.

The only group that I hear that is not happy is junior check airman. Which I think is funny as hell. We (SICs) complain about all of the PICs jumping from plane to plane, and you PICs say, "its all about seniority. Get used to it." Well now they are the ones crying.

The deciding factor for everyone is going to be how much money is throw into the pile. I know that all pilot are whores, and they have a price. My gut feeling, is the money will buy there vote.

Ski....I don't know who you are talking to on the road but I get the impression this thing is far from a sure thing.

Many pre-ratters are saying that they will vote "NO", based on what was given to us on 9/1. Reading the final document MAY change minds.

If serious money isn't there.......Its DOA.

 

[gunfyter]

Say whaaaa?

15 day schedule will be limited to 10%.

I am in the bottom 30% of PICs in my fleet. If its a good schedule do you think i will win the bid for it?

 

[imacdog]

Yeah that's just a little different than saying that the schedule is limited to the top 10% of pilots.

 

[gunfyter]

It all means the same at my house...

A Paycut.

Only doable schedule will be the 7/7 ... hopefully there will be a 20% rise in that.

 

[imacdog]

It all means the same at my house...

A Paycut.

Really? You've seen the final proposal and know how much money is being offered? Of course the 7/7 will continue to pay lower than the reserve schedules, as that's how payscales work. If you can't live with either proposed reserve schedule then go to 7/7; but let's not talk about paycuts until we see the final language.

 

[skiandsurf]

15 day schedule will be limited to 10%.

I am in the bottom 30% of PICs in my fleet. If its a good schedule do you think i will win the bid for it?

Its all about seniority, get used to it. Why did you bid out of the X to go junior in the Falcon? Oh, thats right, wou wanted to fly a bigger plane to make MORE money. Meanwhile, all of us SICs cant even get a PIC slot................due to seniority.

Live by seniority, die by seniority.

 

[gunfyter]

You said the ONLY people not happy are the Check Airmen. You are forgetting about the 20%+ of Reservists.

We don't have section 27 but of what we do have ... I like the 95 new bases for the Domiciled... but NOTHING else.

Section 27 can change the way people feel. I am skeptical they will cough up enough dinero....

 

[DO-82 driver]

Its all about seniority, get used to it. Why did you bid out of the X to go junior in the Falcon? Oh, thats right, wou wanted to fly a bigger plane to make MORE money. Meanwhile, all of us SICs cant even get a PIC slot................due to seniority.

Live by seniority, die by seniority.

You know Ski,

The money difference between the X and Falcon isn't that great. Gun has one of the best reputations in this whole Company and you sound like a total a$$ and a spoiled little BEOTCH when you try and be cute about his reasons for switching planes.

Do you know for a fact why he switched over or are you applying your egotistical standards?

I guess the next beef you're going to have is that you can't upgrade quick enough......wait...wait...wait.... before you answer, let me get a box of tissues.

Why did you wait so long to come to NetJets? If you were here 4 years ago you'de be sporting those 4 stripes by now and have a pretty star over your wings.....I'm sure you eagerly await the day those babies show up in the mail.

 

[skiandsurf]

Section 27 can change the way people feel. I am skeptical they will cough up enough dinero....

See, you can be bought.


Here is what I think will happen. The SICs will get a 15% (or X amount) raise (?), and the PICs a 10% (or X -5%) raise. The PICs will cry, "Thats not fair, they got more money".

Not everyone is going to like the IBB, based on schedules, HBAs, PTOs, or money. Its a fine line that they need to balance a fair deal for everyone. If the Post-rat guys get 95 more choices and the PICs get less percentage of a raise, is it still doable? If a post-rat guy can save on his commute time (more time at home) and you get a pay raise out of it, is that going to piss you off?

 

[gunfyter]

As long as I don't get a paycut ... I won't be pissed off.

Except for the bases... all we have learned is the bad News. The Good news is on the way

 

[Dr Pepper]

The union is trying to push the 10% higher for the 15 flex, according to AV. They still have about 2 weeks of work left. If it does pass, it should be interesting to see who wants a 15 day schedule that has no pilot control, Sr or Jr pilots? I seem to be leaning towards the 18 from what I have seen. Atleast I'll know what my days are a minimum of 2 weeks in advance. Plus, I do not expect much in the way of a bump in pay.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Pep....no major bump in pay and this thing is dead the day we receive our ballots.

I guess the Company doesn't need it that much....after all the Domiciles are working just fine for them, so they claim.

At this point I'm ready to prove it.

Sorry post-rat folks, you may have to drive 3 more years.

 

[Ultra Grump]

skiandsurf

 

[DO-82 driver]

Yeah, that about sums it up. Skiandsurf is as much as a pain in the a$$ here as he is on the Union site.

Geeeez, I couldn't imagine doing a tour with him.

He'll come back now with some cute arse comment.....like I care.

I'm guessing he'll be the first "YES" vote to get mailed in.

Ski...remember...don;t just vote "YES" make sure you write on your ballot "HELL YES"..It'll count as 2.

 

[skiandsurf]

Ultra Grump, that was classic.

Although with a name like "Ultra Grump", I think it fits you better.


Guys, my vote is not a done deal yet. Nobodys should be. How can any of us know how to vote without the Complete Package in front of us. All I have been saying here, is you guys scream Seniority, well now some of you might have to eat those words.

As far as bitching on the union boards, there is a lot to be read and said over there. Lots of good info being shared. I am impressed that BO doesnt lose his cool on some of the idiots....but it does bring good debate and helps to clarify the questions that we have as well as tell the comittee what we want. I dont think that they would waste their time on a POS IBB.

The HBAs really dont help me, but it will help lots of my co-workers. And that must be considered.

A pay raise will help all SICs. I pay raise for PICs will be a nice bonus.

 

[netjetwife]

...Here is what I think will happen. The SICs will get a 15% (or X amount) raise (?), and the PICs a 10% (or X -5%) raise. The PICs will cry, "Thats not fair, they got more money".....

Please don't speak for others. For a fact the PIC I'm married to hopes that those farthest behind in pay will get a bigger raise. I think many in the pilot group would recognize that as fair, especially given the long wait to upgrade. NJW

 

[Diesel]

sigh.....