Professional Pilot Salary Study 2005

[rice]

You guys are all insane! GVflyer, I make those numbers too, but not everyone does. Average out your salary for the past 20 years, actually, draw a line chart. You'll see that our salaries have risen sharply in the past few years. But not everyone's has. Why do I think you're all insane? Because anything north of 100K is plenty of dough. Yes, I make almost double that and don't want to give a penny back, but c'mon, look what a teacher, a doctor, a nurse makes. We're well paid, even overpaid at times (speaking for myself). I like what I make, but I know plenty of happy pilots supporting their families, loving their boss and their coworkers and flying a IV for 95K per year. Bottom line: make your best deal, fly a great airplane for a great company and be satisfied. Don't try to keep up with the Jones's.
Ace

INSANE??????
"$100k plenty of dough", What are you kidding me? FYI, many Teachers, Cops, Nurses, Attorneys, and other occupations make $100k or more in the NY/NJ/CT area. Why because they have to keep up with the cost of living in the area. Your comment about Doctors is just ludicrous. Now how many of us "Professional Pilots" have a defined benefit plan such as those teachers and cops? Not many in this day and age. And what about the guys working for management companies? You won't see many of them with perks such as stock options, qtrly bonuses, etc.
You may know plenty of people flying a G-IV for $95k but I guarantee you they don't live within a 2 hr drive of TEB/HPN/FRG/MMU/BDL.
Try finding a house in the greater tri-satate area for under $500k!! I'm not talking a palace either, a 3-4 bdr house averaging 25 to 30 yrs old with taxes up the ying yang typically starts in the high $450k+ range but if you want anything near new it'll bump you north of $600k nowaday. Thats about $3500/mo just to cover the housing nut not to mention car payments, (I drive a dodge thank you), insurance, yada yada bills, college funds and the like. Guess how much is left over from that extravagant $100k for a self funded (401k) retirement plan? ZIP, ZERO, NADA!!!!!!!!
I don't want/need the Jones' stuff but theres no way I'm going upside down each month in my finances just so I can keep the boss happy. If he can afford to own the plane he can afford to pay a living wage in the area which its based.
But hey lets not be greedy.

 

[PMVULB AvMgr]

I know two large banks out of HPN and I would be very, very surprised if they had more than 3 or 4 regular line captains making over $150K, my guess is that niether has a regular line pilot over $175k.

I remember last year a good buddy of mine interviewed at Citi, they were looking for a Global Express & F900 captain (dual qual). They called my buddy back for a sim ride and told him that they were starting at $90K. He said asked if that was FO and they said, "no that's captain". He asked about a raise or if they were negotiable, they said, "no".

The two banks you are referring to have totally different salary structures. Yes, Citi is extremely (shall we say) frugal when it comes to paying their employees, from pilots through ops and maintenence right to the flight attendants.

JPMC on the other hand has a pilot staff averaging around age 60, who are paid accordingly. These guys are not youngsters who are starting out at $45k flying SIC in the Challenger. They are all well seasoned professionals who are paid what they are worth and bring to the table. The individual running Flight Ops makes DOUBLE the base salary of the individual running Citi's Ops. That's a fact. And let's not forget the Flight Attendant who joined JPMC from Citi and is NOW happier than she's ever been, about both salary as well as working conditions.

So don't put the two banks into the same category, they are worlds apart.

 

[G4G5]

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[Ace-of-the-Base]

If you were the CEO of the largest bank in America who would you want as your next captain?

I certainly wouldn't be looking for an MBA.

So answer this friendly question: What is the most you think we should be paid?

Ace

 

[rice]

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Dang, missed this one before it got edited!!!! Bet it was good though.
Call me, we'll do lunch at the deli but it'll have to be only half sandwiches so I can put a little something in the 401k this month .

 

[rice]

I certainly wouldn't be looking for an MBA.

So answer this friendly question: What is the most you think we should be paid?

Ace

Thats about as smart as asking how good looking the wife or girlfriend should be!!!!!!

BTW, I know a G-IV guy making $95k who's wife is hideous. But he's happy.

 

[G4G5]

I certainly wouldn't be looking for an MBA.

So answer this friendly question: What is the most you think we should be paid?

Ace

It depends upon what the MBA was in, Aviation mgt or finance, certianly would give you a leg up on another potential candidate. Embry Riddle and most aviation colleges now offer aviation related MBAs.

I have been around long enough to discover that you should be paid the equivallent of what you bring to the table. Never sell yourself short. The difference between corporate and the airlines is that you have no union support when negotiating your salery. You have to cut the best deal that you can, and for a lot of us our saleries are directly proportionate to our abilities to negotate.

A key thing to remember is Quality of Life. Only you can put a price on it and Mr. Smith has no way of placing it in his survey. Just last week I had a friend call me up for advice. He was going between 2 offers. Offer 1 paid more then offer 2 by approx $10k. Offer 2 was with a company that shut down the flt department every X-mas through New Years and offered more total time off. My buddy was really getting caught up in the numbers until I asked him to place a dollar figure on having to tell his daughter that he would not be home for the next X number of Christmas's.

So to answer your friendly question, get whatever number makes you sleep well at night beacuse at the end of the day if you are not happy then you will not do the best you can and subsequently your employer will not be happy.

Good luck.

Getting back to the pro pilot survey, I have always felt it was a bit low but I have never taken it seriously because I don't know all that many pilots that actually fill it out.

 

[G4G5]

I know two large banks out of HPN and I would be very, very surprised if they had more than 3 or 4 regular line captains making over $150K, my guess is that niether has a regular line pilot over $175k.

I remember last year a good buddy of mine interviewed at Citi, they were looking for a Global Express & F900 captain (dual qual). They called my buddy back for a sim ride and told him that they were starting at $90K. He said asked if that was FO and they said, "no that's captain". He asked about a raise or if they were negotiable, they said, "no".

The two banks you are referring to have totally different salary structures. Yes, Citi is extremely (shall we say) frugal when it comes to paying their employees, from pilots through ops and maintenence right to the flight attendants.

JPMC on the other hand has a pilot staff averaging around age 60, who are paid accordingly. These guys are not youngsters who are starting out at $45k flying SIC in the Challenger. They are all well seasoned professionals who are paid what they are worth and bring to the table. The individual running Flight Ops makes DOUBLE the base salary of the individual running Citi's Ops. That's a fact. And let's not forget the Flight Attendant who joined JPMC from Citi and is NOW happier than she's ever been, about both salary as well as working conditions.

So don't put the two banks into the same category, they are worlds apart.

So then it's safe to say that you have at least one regular line captain making north of $175k and at least 3 or 4 making at least $150k. Because if that is what you are trying to tell us when you quoted me, I commend you.

As a former Jet Aviation employee, I can honestly tell you that I did not know of a single account that paid their pilots that well. Maybe I am wrong and I certianly hope that I am. Now that you folks are no longer part of Jet and the mgt structure I am glad to see you are raising the bar. Good luck.

Not to lump you in with the other guys because, "the Citi never sleeps" and they never pay.

 

[G4G5]

Dang, missed this one before it got edited!!!! Bet it was good though.
Call me, we'll do lunch at the deli but it'll have to be only half sandwiches so I can put a little something in the 401k this month .

Mon and Tues are shot, Wed looks like the best day this week.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

It depends upon what the MBA was in, Aviation mgt or finance, certianly would give you a leg up on another potential candidate. Embry Riddle and most aviation colleges now offer aviation related MBAs.

I have been around long enough to discover that you should be paid the equivallent of what you bring to the table. Never sell yourself short. The difference between corporate and the airlines is that you have no union support when negotiating your salery. You have to cut the best deal that you can, and for a lot of us our saleries are directly proportionate to our abilities to negotate.

A key thing to remember is Quality of Life. Only you can put a price on it and Mr. Smith has no way of placing it in his survey. Just last week I had a friend call me up for advice. He was going between 2 offers. Offer 1 paid more then offer 2 by approx $10k. Offer 2 was with a company that shut down the flt department every X-mas through New Years and offered more total time off. My buddy was really getting caught up in the numbers until I asked him to place a dollar figure on having to tell his daughter that he would not be home for the next X number of Christmas's.

So to answer your friendly question, get whatever number makes you sleep well at night beacuse at the end of the day if you are not happy then you will not do the best you can and subsequently your employer will not be happy.

Good luck.

Getting back to the pro pilot survey, I have always felt it was a bit low but I have never taken it seriously because I don't know all that many pilots that actually fill it out.

Therefore, you support my original post. I DO know plenty of pilots making around 100K and are very happy. QOL. You're preaching to the choir.

About the MBA crack, it's just my experience that the 'book' types can't fly themselves out of a box. Just my observation, not a scientific statement. But when I sit down and list what I, as a CEO, want in a pilot, a Master's degree doesn't show up on the list. A culture of safety, high flight time, time in type (sorry all you lower time guys, but I know that I can solve alot more problems now with a few thousand hours in the plane), good team building skills, good personality, health, loyalty, life satisfaction (happy person = good pilot), etc. These are the things that make a good pilot and a good employee. He needs to make good descisions, make my trophy wife happy and get along with others. Hmmmmm, I'm not sure I'd hire myself.

Ace