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Sorry, DNAJ, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot's communist utopia has killed many, many more.DarnNearaJet said:True. Millions of people have died in the name of communism. But many more have died in religious wars throughout the ages.
So what you're saying is that you are open minded and could be persuaded to be an atheist, right? Give me a break. Just because we will not make a leap of faith doesn't make us close minded.There are just as many books and websites out there to support the accuracy of the Bible as there are to critcize it, and although I'm sure Snakum, cjh, BB, and the others would immediately consider any supporting documentation to be "highly suspect" (so much for open mindedness), there is no less of a biased agenda behind those who seek to discredit it.
1) Just a minute ago you were accusing non-believers of being close minded and now you are citing examples of non-beleivers changing their minds.. but I will let this particular contradiciton pass without further comment.In the last century, dozens of highly educated, highly motivated skeptics have traveled the world... but while some have actually become believers, even the others had to admit (grudgingly, I'm sure) that their findings either supported Biblical accounts, or were neutral in their effect.
1) None of these references to Jesus proves that Jesus was a deity....contemporary writings supporting the existence of Jesus ...accounts by Flavius Josephus... ... The list goes on, and there are many good books on the subject for those interested.
1) If I showed you an interim species you would ask me where the interim species was between it and something else. Each species in the fossil record can be thought of as transitive. This is frankly an old argument that doesn't get you anywhere.In terms of science having "disproved" the Bible, that is also a popular but mistaken assumption. The fossil record ....Dawkins,... Gould,... Sagan... differences in opinion...
1) Science continues to revise itself as our understanding of the universe grows. Your argument that science is weak because it contiues to grow and expand its knowledge is laughable. That's the whole point!Studies in other areas of science.... Then we have the objective, intellectual model of Gould's writings, ...
1) Here, you've got it mostly right. We do believe that you have the burden of proof.Like a defense attorney, you think the case is won not by proving the innocence of your client, but by attempting to cast just enough doubt on his guilt to supposedly discredit the prosecution, without the burden of producing evidence to fully support your case.
I choose to believe in the Divine .... Think about it; look at the sheer wonder of the entirety of human activity in a single day, in every culture, language, etc....... Art, literature, communication, transportation, music, construction; planes that fly and ships that sail and satellites that orbit the earth and allow us to talk to each other and see pictures in seconds; I can't even begin to mention it all, and most of this came about by man's imagination in just the last century alone!
Ok, if you really have read Gould then you are being disingenuous. Primates and humans split millinea ago - humans do not come from monkeys.Now, since we "evolved" from monkeys, show me the progress made by even the most intelligent primate in the last THOUSAND YEARS?
SIGH. Now you really are being disingenuous.You (to no one in particular, just in general) claim the world would be a wonderful place if we could just dispose of religious belief systems. Well, the USSR was officially an athiest state, even teaching classes in the schools denying the existence of God. Over the course of 70 plus years, and estimated 200 MILLION people were slaughtered or imprisoned for daring to disagree with the Party line, and similar events took place in other regimes, from China to Cambodia and too many others, all in the name of NO GOD.
Here you go trying to frame this debate in a way that you win automatically. Sorry, I am not buying it. None of us believes that a human and a rodent have equal value. This is another straw argument. You have framed the debate so that it sounds like atheists are arguing this and then you try to beat down the pseudo argument. Nice try.If the individual has no greater value than a rodent, those in power can decide to exterminate anyone or group of their choosing if the situation suits them, so the problem isn't solved. And THAT, friends, is the situation we Christians find as a possibility if the ideas some of you espouse become official government policy in the future, given enough time and repetition in the minds of those who do not take the time to explore the issue, and one that I would be irresponsible to not fight against.
Definition of RELIGION from Meriam Webster online:So, although religion and politics can be a distastful mix, they are hard to separate (atheism is classified as a religion), and unfortunately, the head-butting will most certainly continue.
1) You are a spiritual creature. I am not.I contend that we are, at our core, spiritual creatures, with most of us sensing the innate desire to seek beyond that which we see, the need to believe that we are more than just an accident of a mindless nature, living a pointless existence. You may find that to be a crutch for the intellectually vacant, but I believe you are in the distinct minority.
Birdstrike said:Airbrush, Timebuilder, 310, Enigma, TwinTails:
Give it a rest. Remember all that Pharaoah saw and endured...all those plagues, all those displays of power. He simply would not believe. Period. Lazarus returned from the dead wanting to send a warning to the living...but it didn't happen because he was told that men would not believe even if confronted with a message from beyond the grave.
You are not going to change any minds in this kind of forum. It's not a linear kind of an argument. As Jesus said, "this kind takes much fasting and prayer" This soil has just not been prepared.
Pray for those guys. It's not your responsibility to change a man's heart, that's the Holy Spirit's specialty. You spoke up and took a stand and maybe you'll be a link in the chain. Let's move on.