Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Post Election "high"

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
From the closed thread, where little was being advanced in the arena of ideas, I see that some of us have a little extra pep in our step this week, while others are feeling a little low. I feel your pain. I also found an answer for myself, and I think others are finding it, too.

May I have a minute of your time here?

When I was a liberal dem and a broadcaster/journalist, I really looked up to the top of the news pile; you know, the Peter Jennings, Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw bunch. These men were my "gods". They were all so clearly aligned with my party, and I felt very satisfied every time they spoke, letting myself believe that if I agreed with these well trained, successful professionals, I was somehow a better American. I was very clear on the subtextual message: that we libs (we thought of ourselves as centrists) are better and smarter than most other people are, and that our ideas are the only ideas with any merit. WE ALONE are the most compassionate, race and gender neutral, environmentally wise, and economically sensitive people in America. Therefore when our ideas are discussed by the media (including me) those ideas should be expressed in a way that indicates how superior and reasonable a group of people that we truly are.

It was a pretty comfortable, smarmy attitude. Like John Ratzenberger's "Cliffy" on Cheers, we were the know-it-alls. It took me over two decades of this to figure out how wrong I really was, and the true nature of what was going on, and who was responsible.

When I finally left broadcasting, I had a few years to take a more balanced look at these views. Were the ideas we cherished meritorious? No. Were they effective? No. Were our policies in the best interest of America? It did not appear to be so, based on the “results”. I began to think that I had been politically lazy, and had swallowed these lies hook, line, and sinker. Were poor Americans better off for my party’s policies? No. Welfare was out of control. The “War on Poverty” was a miserable failure. But we did push the civil rights act in the sixties, right? No, that was the Republicans who had done that. Democrats had opposed that legislation. But I could still look up to the Kennedy family, right? No, Joseph P, the family patriarch, had written the legislation to end insider trading only AFTER he had cheated thousands of investors himself by raising insider trading to a fine art. I began to see that his son, JFK, had been something of a conservative. But my party protected people with strong consumer product safety legislation, right? No, the only people who were always strengthened by this were my party’s huge contributors, the trial lawyers who posited the idea that we are all too dumb to protect ourselves, and need them to correct our wrongs by the tort process. I realized that YOU and I pay the bill for these proceedings every day, through higher prices for almost everything. Remember the time when there were no small planes being manufactured? I still have to wonder how “this beverage is HOT” made it onto a coffee cup. We led the fight to clean up the environment, right? Not quite. Most of the money earmarked for site cleanup had gone to legal expenses, (see above) and precious few sites had been cleaned up. Most of all, I was angry at what had become of the legacy of Dr. King in the hands of my party. He was not a public handout kind of guy, he was a hand up kind of guy. He was not in favor of racial quotas for employment, free abortions for poor women, or special treatment for college admissions. The father of the American civil rights movement had been a conservative! My party had completely turned aside from his leadership, and his “Dream” had become an American nightmare.

As I looked into these things further, I found that the media, MY media, had been the perpetrators of this hoax, and had become what another radio host now calls the “willing accomplices”.

It was only when I started thinking for myself in these matters of policy, and not just taking a cue from Brokaw, et al, that I began to look at what our founders and others had said: that we are a country of “rugged individuals” who worked together for the common good, that the status of being equal is obtained by what you DO after you have been “created equal”, and not what is granted to you by government, that the roles we have in our lives are not determined by legislation, but by the creator who forms us in the womb and who gives us certain unalienable rights, which when combined with our own drive to survive and thrive, results in the pursuit of happiness, framed in the belief that we are a moral people, yet with out a government-sponsored religion.

I was struck by the idea that when everyday people adhere to these ideas, they TAKE THE POWER from the so-called “leaders”, and live free. When you do this, the Tom Brokaws, Jesse Jacksons, Ted Kennedys, and Tom Daschles become marginalized and small.

Perhaps these election results are a reflection of the manner in which people obtain information, and from whom. In this internet age, more people are thinking for themselves, and not taking a cue from the media status quo.

As pilots, we know how dangerous it can be to put our trust in others, without checking for ourselves. We know how the best of intentions of “man” can lead to a total screw-up. We know how much a successful flight is the result of OUR actions, and not those of others, or any implemented regulation. The PIC authority is a direct reflection of the rugged individualist, who in the final analysis is the most powerful individual contributor to the outcome of the flight.

Perhaps this idea is finding its way back into the forefront of American politics and policy.

Nomex fire suit at the ready...
 
Timebuilder

Excellent Post!! My sentiments exactly.

I am a bit green to this board so my question is... why was the other post closed?
 
Whe it comes to politics and standards I just simply pick the party and candidates that line up with the standards of the Bible. The Word of God, since our President believes in the same Bible and the standards that I do it is easy to support him. My main support for the RNP is their stand on abortion which it is very clear in scripture that those that shed innnocent blood are an abomination in God's eyes. I want a party and President and representatives that do what God wants not what man wants. Because in scripture it clearly states that God will bless them that stand up for His commands having leadership that is submissive to the will of Almighty God is the best thing for this wonderful country. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

P.S. I just want to also say that I am just a man and the blood of Jesus covers all and every sin,including my many, I do not call any man anything but my equal. If he or she does not believe in God's standards I have no problem with that person, that is between them and their Creator.
 
Why was that thread closed? Easy. We pilots are a pretty feisty bunch, and we sometimes can carry on for several pages on a whole host of subjects.

Perhaps the moderators felt that it wasn't sufficiently germaine to aviation. My hope was to point out the similarity of the rugged individual to the concept of Pilot in Command, and how I found my way in both areas at the same time in my life.
 
I was struck by the idea that when everyday people adhere to these ideas, they TAKE THE POWER from the so-called “leaders”, and live free. When you do this, the Tom Brokaws, Jesse Jacksons, Ted Kennedys, and Tom Daschles become marginalized and small.

To add to your list; George Bush's, John Ashcrofts, Trent Lotts, Rush Limbaughs, Grover Norquists...etc.
 
waka,


You forgot Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond. Now that these last two are leaving, the GOP can move into the 1980's, maybe the 90's ;)
 
Timebuilder, TurboS7,

Awesome comments. I don't have a thing to add, so I'll just do the unthinkable and say "Me too!"
 
Whe it comes to politics and standards I just simply pick the party and candidates that line up with the standards of the Bible. The Word of God, since our President believes in the same Bible and the standards that I do it is easy to support him.

Where in the Bible does it say that "thou shall bomb the living sh!t out of everyone who's thoughts, views, and actions do not line up with those of the almighty"?
 
Doin Time

Open your eyes. Attack them now or they attack us later..... hum it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the strategy that makes the most sense. I bet Saddam is trying to get WMD just for the hell of it, maybe he is just really interested in science and enjoys funding large science experiments. No you big dummy he's going to use them against the great evil in this world... the USA. Open your eyes! Ok maybe there's a 50% chance that he will not, do you want to take that bet? I don't.
 
Just imagine if our legal system operated the same way our president thought international justice should be handled.

I can see the judge handing down the ruling now. Mr Dirt, we found this gun on you premesis and I know that you have the right bear arms but you seem like the type of person who would use it to injure somebody else. I have no other choice but to sentence you to death with no appeals. Have a nice day!
 
Where in the Bible does it say that "thou shall bomb the living sh!t out of everyone who's thoughts, views, and actions do not line up with those of the almighty"?

You mean the actions of killing 3000 innocent people? With plans and threats to kill even more? What do you want us to do, sit here and beg and plead for them not to hurt us or roll our sleeves up and make them regret ever turning their head toward the west. Isn't there a hippy demonstration you're late for?
 
What would jesus do?

Good point DoinTime

Turbo, I too am a person of faith and I sometimes ask myself would christ approve of america bombing the heck out of Iraq simply because we can?....probably not...would christ side in favor for big corporations over the average working american?....Nope...would christ neglect the education and social ills that exist in our inner cities, simply because those people aren't going to vote for us republicans anyway?...probably not...would christ approve abortion?...probably not...you see Turbo, there is no party that aligns with the Bible. They are all hyprocrites and we should not be so gulable to think that they have any of our best interest at heart.
 
Doin time

Great analogy, comparing foreign policy with our legal system, that was really creative and imaginative.

I just had a great idea let's open up all our borders, dismantle our military, divide all the riches of this country equally among everybody, legalize drugs and all sit back get high sing puff the magic dragon and see what happens. You would probably like that wouldn't you dointime?
 
I may get flamed for this.

From TurboS7
Whe it comes to politics and standards I just simply pick the party and candidates that line up with the standards of the Bible. The Word of God, since our President believes in the same Bible and the standards that I do it is easy to support him. My main support for the RNP is their stand on abortion which it is very clear in scripture that those that shed innnocent blood are an abomination in God's eyes. I want a party and President and representatives that do what God wants not what man wants. Because in scripture it clearly states that God will bless them that stand up for His commands having leadership that is submissive to the will of Almighty God is the best thing for this wonderful country. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

Turbo, I have a great amount of respect for you. However, politics and religion are oil and water. Once you cross the bridge into governing human beings based on religion you run into all kinds of problems. We don't have to go to far to see examples of misguided religious beliefs: The terrorists who blew up the WTC and murdered 3000 people thought THEY were doing god's work....

Another way to think of it. My religious beliefs are personal and are between me and god. Why would I want them to enter into a political arena?

For my part, I try to act honorably and respectfully to everyone and when I vote I choose those who do the same in a way that I think is appropriate. However, I personally could never use only a religious belief as my one driving factor for politics. That's a very sliperry slope.

The Republicans have a lot going for them just from a common sense perspective - and I think their positions are defensible without involving religious rightness or wrongness.
 
Re: I may get flamed for this.

TXCAP4228 said:
Once you cross the bridge into governing human beings based on religion you run into all kinds of problems.

Ah, now I have something to add. TX, I agree that a truly free society is incompatible with a theocracy, which is religious rule. However, Turbo was referring to something completely different. He was exercising his citizen's franchise based on his own criteria, which is ultimately the very definition of American political freedom. Those criteria are Biblically-based, as are my own, but that doesn't amount to religious rule. It does ensure that we, Turbo and I, attempt to vote for candidates that best conform to the Christian ideal. Sometimes, nobody gets very close, but we ought to make the attempt. That's our right, our privilege and our responsibility. I for one think that a Biblical standard is the best overall, but as always, your mileage may vary. That's one reason this country is great: we don't have to agree in order to achieve a mutually desireable societal goal, namely guaranteeing a peaceful transition of government power. We're the best in the world at it.
 
daedaepilot - That was one of only a couple logical and intelligent posts on this thread. You're a man of reason ... and ... you da man!

Minh

"Anxiously awaiting the return of Christians and Lions. A spectator sport I can get behind."
:D
 
TurboS7 said:
Whe it comes to politics and standards I just simply pick the party and candidates that line up with the standards of the Bible. The Word of God, since our President believes in the same Bible and the standards that I do it is easy to support him. My main support for the RNP is their stand on abortion which it is very clear in scripture that those that shed innnocent blood are an abomination in God's eyes. I want a party and President and representatives that do what God wants not what man wants.
Yeah, well, "God's Party" is about to ruin your chosen profession.
http://www.apfa.org/public/articles/News-Events/reaction3.html
 
Did I read that article correctly? HILLARY CLINTON received the largest donation of all: $33,000 from ALPA??????
 
I agree 100% with TurboS7. Very well put and I think the other posts speak for themselves. I think Bush is doing a good job for the most part however being one sided towards Israel at all times is not going to make us many friends in this world.:D :D

Should definately be an interesting next couple of years especially with regards to the International scene. Let's just hope we can accomplish peace on a global scale and protect this great nation from harm and extremists who are against our beliefs and what we stand for.

3 5 0
 
Snakum,

If that thread was closed because of something I started, I'm sorry. I haven't checked on to the board since last night and I'm thinking that things may have been taken the wrong way. I was making fun in a seriouse discussion. Maybe more of these next time;) :D :p :) .

Anyway, were all a bunch of overly dramatic little girls.. oop's I mean people.. on this board. Especially when were posting about something that may strike a personal and emotional coard. We gotta have something to do when not in the air right? If only the televison had an aviationn related soap opera. We'd be in heaven. ( again, sarcastic, funny, goofing around )
 
TurboS7 said:
Whe it comes to politics and standards I just simply pick the party and candidates that line up with the standards of the Bible. The Word of God, since our President believes in the same Bible and the standards that I do it is easy to support him. My main support for the RNP is their stand on abortion which it is very clear in scripture that those that shed innnocent blood are an abomination in God's eyes. I want a party and President and representatives that do what God wants not what man wants. Because in scripture it clearly states that God will bless them that stand up for His commands having leadership that is submissive to the will of Almighty God is the best thing for this wonderful country. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

P.S. I just want to also say that I am just a man and the blood of Jesus covers all and every sin,including my many, I do not call any man anything but my equal. If he or she does not believe in God's standards I have no problem with that person, that is between them and their Creator.

That's some pretty scary stuff.

While I respect your right to vote for whatever candidate you want, I feel there is no place for religion in politics.

Our country was founded on the principle that we would not rule based on religious extremes. Our founders were escaping religious persecution when they came here. So were countless millions of immigrants who have come here since.

If we give in to the radical factions (both left and right) who are dominated by religious fanaticism, we will be no more above the likes of the Taliban or other socities who rule by religious extremism.

BTW, the other post was closed because it had degraded into a political pissing match (just like this one is becoming), something more suited for a political message board, not this one.

[Edited to add comments about closed post]
 
Last edited:
DOIN TIME

Really bad analogy you made comparing government action again Saddam and preemptive "law enforcement" again an innocent citizen simply because he owns a gun.
I think it's been clearly established that Saddam not only has these weapons but also clearly has used them; not to mention the attempt to assasinate one of our ex presidents.
A strike against Iraq would in some ways be preemptive as it would preempt FURTHER crimes by Saddam but it would also be punitive since he is already GUILTY of crimes warranting this action.
The innocent citizen you cite in your "analogy" has done nothing. Had he already commited a crime with the gun he would then be subject to enforcement of the law.
Engage mind before mouth/keyboard.
 
Original post that started this was awesome. Unless you have any objection, Timebuilder, there are several people to whom I'd like to e-mail a copy.

As for our country falling more in line with the Bible, what a scary thought indeed. I can't think of a book that contains more hatred, prejudice, genocide, and blood-letting than the good ole' "Christian" Bible.
 
TIMEBUILDER

Welcome to the "right" side. I had a similar transformation but mine occured during my college days in the late 1970's. In college I was your typical liberal college student type with no real world experience. In my junior year I went to Germany for a year and lived just a few km from the then East German border. I picniced in the Hartz mtns and watched the communists across the fence in their machine gun towers watching me enjoying my brats and beer. That winter the Warsaw Pact forces had big war and every night on W. German TV I found out how many Russian tanks were 15 minutes from my house. Geopolitics and national security were no longer an academic subject. It changed my attitude a lot.
In addition I was exposed to a lot of middle eastern (amoung others) students who openly expressed their hatred for the US. The university I attended there (Gottengen) was at that time one of the most communist-infested in the BRD. It opened my eyes at an early age to reality.
After graduating I went into business for myself and was successful but found out what economic reality is. Governent regulation, taxes, dealing with employees, a lot of whom seem to have an entitlement mentality, expecting a paycheck for just showing up..
In this country today the government schools and many parents alike are doing a pitiful job of creating real citizens as opposed to sheep-like subjects who look to the government tit instead of actually achieving something on their own. I am old enough to remember in elementary school starting every day with raising the flag in the school courtyard, reciting the pledge of allegiance (yes, under God) and saying the Lord's Prayer. But those days are gone, probably forever. How sad.
Perhaps every citizen should be required to serve in the military, or do some type of service, or be self-employed or something to instill some type of notion of what citizenship really means. But no, the nanny state knows what's best for us.
But with this weeks election there is a faint glimmer of hope that we might be able to begin chiping away just a little at the rot that has beset this nation. But I don't count on it too much. I hope the American people will prove me wrong.
God Bless.
 
cjh said:
As for our country falling more in line with the Bible, what a scary thought indeed. I can't think of a book that contains more hatred, prejudice, genocide, and blood-letting than the good ole' "Christian" Bible.

I'm sorry to hear that. You must not have read for comprehension, since while all of those things are present, they are not often approved of, even in the "bloody" Old Testament. In particular, the New Testament repudiates the necessity for such. Or perhaps you haven't actually read it yourself?
 
ifly,

You couldn't be more wrong. Our country was not founded on not ruling based on religious extremes. I am amazed at how many people get this wrong. There is no constitutional principle separating church & state, either.

If you actually read the Declaration of Independence, it is simply a bitch list about how the king trampled the liberties the colonists thought they deserved because they were building this country with their own hands in the first place. The only "principle" of religion they were concerned with was the free practice of it. This country was truly founded on getting out from under the king's thumb. Religion was only incidental in that one of the kings excesses the Revolutionists were refuting was his "right" to dictate the religious practices of his subjects. America was not founded purely on religious freedom. Once it established that freedom, however, it naturally became a haven for the persecuted.

As for oil & water, remember that the foundation of all law in America is the Constitution. Where does the Constitution get it's authority? The Continental Congress? No. The people? Nope. It gets its authority from God. Read it and you'll see. So you could say that all legal/political/governing authority in America is based on God. Unalienable rights endowed by our Creator, to be exact. Hardly oil and water.

I urge everbody to re-read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. They are extremely interesting for what they don't say, as well as what they do.
 
Re: TIMEBUILDER

prodigal said:
WPerhaps every citizen should be required to serve in the military, or do some type of service, or be self-employed or something to instill some type of notion of what citizenship really means.

I totally agree with you. I think government service for a couple of years would make all the difference in the world. You learn responsibility, discipline, pride in country, respect for self and others, and for some it's the first time they have any dealings with people of different ethnic or racial backgrounds. You learn that no one owes you a handout, that you're not entitled to anything, and that it's up to you to make something of yourself. I also think it should not be limited to one sex. Every able eighteen year old should be included.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom