Please provide advice to father...

[FCO]

My son's goal is to be a pilot -- ideally, regional and eventually with a larger commercial airline. I am a college professor and welcome his desire to pursue his dreams. That said, I don't know much about that career path since I took the traditional academic route and I do not have the funds for him to earn his licenses from while in high school. Much of this seems like piece meal where one earns licenses at one place and a degree (if wanted/needed) from another place... and then still the student comes up short with necessary hours and needs flight time for even a starter position that requires a minimum of 500 flying hours. He's a very good kid with a B+ average and a good head on his shoulders. Aviation is the passion that never went away... he dreams this stuff. What path/program do you suggest when he graduates from high school?

Thanks,

TJ

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Have him attain a college degree in something other than aviation. An aviation degree does not really matter in terms of getting hired. A college degree does. It adds one more check to the application. The reason for a degree outside of aviation is that the industry is highly cyclical and most career pilots are out of work several times during their career. A degree in something which would provide more resilient income is essential if he plans to ride out the waves throughout his flying career.

Outside of a university or the military, he can attend either a part 141 or part 61 flight school. The part 141 program is theoretically more structured (this can vary from pilot mill to pilot mill), but lacks in many other aspects. Part 141 training requires less overall training time compared to what is required of a part 61 program. They also tend to be "all-inclusive" deals, where they take you from student to multiengine commerical pilot flight instructor. The differences are minimal. From what I recall, a private pilot certificate requires 40 hrs part 61 and 35 for part 141. Most pilots need much more than these minimums to successfully pass a checkride. The minimums are set forth by the FAA. Depending on where you fly will have a great impact on how expensive things can get. Most 141 programs have flat rate pricing, but many times students who are barely capable or prepared are sent on "canned" checkrides with their own in-house examiner who passes them.

Part 61 can involve what might be called an FBO operator which provides flight instruction. You'll find many small flight schools or "mom and pop" type operations at your local field, althoguh they are disappearing fast due to the dire state of the industry. Another benefit to go part 61 is that you're exposed to a broader training landscape. Typical pat 61 training will involve having to fly with different instructors for each rating. this has the advantage of learning different techniques from differnt pilots of varying experience. You'll also fly many different types of planes as well.

One thing to keep in mind is that in order to get hired at an entry level job requires a minimum amount of multiengine time. In general, most pilots (regardless of training route) end up with their CFI, CFII and MEI without much multiengine time. ALLATPS is a 141 program where the students fly the majority of the program in multiengine airplanes which is their biggest selling point.

Anyway, there's so much to cover in terms of the how and what. Hopefully others will chime in and fill in any gaps I've missed, which is plenty. Ask some follow up questions, if you will, and you'll get more targeted answers.


Best.

 

[FCO]

Flight schools do not offer financial aid or low interest loans, which is why I felt a college or university would be best. Another thought: get the licenses and hours and work for a regional first... then earn a BS/BS to apply for the larger airlines. I wonder if an Embry-Riddle or Delta Academy might be a good idea.

TJ

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Flight schools do not offer financial aid or low interest loans, which is why I felt a college or university would be best. Another thought: get the licenses and hours and work for a regional first... then earn a BS/BS to apply for the larger airlines. I wonder if an Embry-Riddle or Delta Academy might be a good idea.

TJ

Beware the university route for flight training. It takes a lot longer to acquire the individual ratings and will cost you more in the end. ERU is overrated and Delta Academy is not a university. They are just like ALLATPS and other pilot mills. Aviation is full of glossy feel-good ads with "guranteed" FO jobs. Don't fall for the hype.

Trying to get a degree while line flying can be tough. He's better off going to school concurrently with flight training on the side.

One more thing, he should purchase one of the flight simulator programs like MSFS, along with a yoke. Being able to practice at home on a PC will cut his flight training bill in half, especially when it comes to earning the instrument rating. PC sims work best when used for learning the various instrument procedures.

BTW, in terms of funding, Sallie Mae which was a highly visable and big player in the loan market for pilots is shoring up their funding for flight training. I belive they will continue to accept applications for loans up until May 8th.


http://www.aopa.org/training/articles/2009/090331sallie.html

Sallie Mae slashes flight training loan business

By Ian J. Twombly

Responding to what it calls “difficult market conditions,” Sallie Mae announced via letter to select flight schools recently that it is significantly reducing the amount of flight training loans it generates.

Although the reduction is thought to be significant and widespread, the company wouldn’t comment on how many schools will be cut from the loan program.

“Due to difficult market conditions, we have found it necessary to focus our resources only on those schools that generate sufficient volume of approved loans to justify the expense of maintaining this manually intensive program,” said a spokeswoman.

The effective date of the termination is May 8. Applications submitted up to that point are being processed, according to the letter. Students are encouraged to speak with their flight school manager for additional details on whether or not financing will be available through Sallie Mae.

AOPA reminds members that if offers an alternative financing route through its Flight Training Funds Program.

The Program doesn’t require students to use a particular school; even private instructors are eligible.
March 31, 2009

 

[mynameisjim]

Flight schools do not offer financial aid or low interest loans, which is why I felt a college or university would be best. Another thought: get the licenses and hours and work for a regional first... then earn a BS/BS to apply for the larger airlines. I wonder if an Embry-Riddle or Delta Academy might be a good idea.

TJ

Annual tuition including room and board:

Embry-Riddle Total, flight students $48,693

Harvard, Total $49,361



http://www.erau.edu/admissions/estimated-costs.html

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=1251&profileId=2

 

[partypilot1]

There are multiple factors that come into play when determining how to get to point B from point A, in an aviation career (market timing is everything and is uncontrollable, just be ready).
I strongly recommend going to college while attaining primary flight instruction and flight instructing after primary complete and still in college. It's not easy but he will learn that sacrifices must be made to be successful in aviation, lots of them. It's not the route I chose but everyone I know who did it that way seem to learn the industry before diving in head first.
The best advice is, just take it one step at a time. Primary, PIC flight time, Multi PIC, stuff on your resume to side you apart from the rest.
Sometimes your ahead of your pilot buddies, sometimes your behind, the race is long and in the end, it was only with yourself

 

[FCO]

Praise the Lord! For all the times I have scorned my son for "playing" on that computer, maybe there is some good to it all. He IS the master of MSFS with a yoke. Thank you, once again!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Praise the Lord! For all the times I have scorned my son for "playing" on that computer, maybe there is some good to it all. He IS the master of MSFS with a yoke. Thank you, once again!

While he waits on the sidelines, have him pick up a copy of the FAA Private Pilot PTS to use on his PC. The Practical Test Standards (PTS) booklet is issued by the FAA for each certificate and rating that which requires a checkride. He should begin to go through the Private PTS and learn what manuevers are required and the tolerances needed. For example, he should be able to hold heading within +/- 10 degrees, altitude +/-100' and airspeed within +/- 10 knots.

If you go to www.faa.gov you'll find the PDF versions of all the FAA handbooks from private pilot on up as well as copies of the various PTS guides.


Here's a link to the various Aviation handbooks:
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/


Here's the link to the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook:
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/airplane_handbook/

 

[legendskid_44]

Check your PM. Rakefight is right, pick up the beginning of your sons aviation library with a Private PTS

 

[lowtimedriver]

My hat is off to you for caring enough about your son to inquire here. You will get excellent advice here and one thing is for sure, there isn't a bunch of better people in my opinion than pilots. You must be a great Dad.

 

[FCO]

Thank you so much; you made my night. I will go to the edge of the earth for him. As I always tell him, if you try in life, I will support you in your hopes and dreams.

 

[Lynxman]

Def try an push the degree outside of aviation first I'm kicking myself for not doing that the first time around. Along with doing the training pt. 61 it saved me money and in the end put me ahead of my peers by alot.

 

[Princedietrich]

Other things to keep in mind, for further down the road, are the more "non traditional" routes of professional pilots. The most common route that many of us took is the instructor to regional to major path or perhaps the military to major path. But there are many more ways to fly an airplane, get paid to do it, and perhaps have a heck of a lot of fun in the process. Sightseeing airtours, traffic watch, pipeline/powerline patrol, aerial mapping, banner towing and flying jumpers are all more or less "entry level" piloting jobs. From there you can move on to charter, cargo, corporate, crop dusting, fire bombing and of course the airlines. Granted, some of these more advanced jobs can be difficult to get into and carry some considerable risk.

Bottom line is to make sure he keeps an open mind and doesn't get locked into the mentality that he has to be left seat in a triple 7 to be happy (although it does help in terms of being financially sound).

Another point I want to make is in regard to 141 training programs. While there is very little difference in the minimum time required for private pilot in 61 versus 141, the REAL difference comes when you get to commercial. Under part 61 the minimum is 250 hours, but under part 141 the minimum is 190 hours: 35 minimum to get private, 35 minimum to get instrument rating, and 120 minimum to get commercial. In theory, this can get you to the point of being able to fly for a living in less than 200 hours.

Definitely look into the university programs because a college degree will do nothing but help his career, but I personally would shy away from Embry Riddle. Nothing against them but they're just too darned expensive, as a previous poster mentioned you could almost go to Harvard for the same price.

 

[ualdriver]

My son's goal is to be a pilot -- ideally, regional and eventually with a larger commercial airline. I am a college professor and welcome his desire to pursue his dreams.

I don't know how old your son is, but if it were my son, and he truly was serious about becoming a professional pilot, I would really have a "heart to heart" talk with him. I would explain to him that he is going to be carrying alot of debt when he graduates from college and completes his training. Far more debt than other professionals (I'm assuming you aren't going to be able to help him with his education as you didn't mention it. Correct me if I'm wrong). I would explain to him that while carrying that high debt load that he is going to have to expect very low salaries for the first few to several years of his career. Everyone is poor when they finish their professional training and college, whether you're an accountant or a IT guy or whatever. The difference is that other professionals can expect entry level salaries in the 30's and 40's and if they do well, can expect raises and career progression. Pilots can expect entry level salaries in the 20's and perhaps won't make more than 30K/year for the first several years of their career- all while trying to service 10's of thousands of dollars of debt. There is a huge oversupply of pilots in the market right now, there has been for at least the couple of decades I've been in aviation, and unfortunately low salaries reflect that oversupply.

If he still wants to do it, I would suggest that while in High School, he at least try to solo at a local airport. Almost all of us on this board were flight instructors at one point in our career. Many of us, unfortunately, have seen young people change their mind after actually having flown an airplane and seeing/feeling what it is really like. Some people love airplanes but simply aren't cut out for flying. He's better off making sure that he likes flying while he's young and hasn't made any major decisions about his college education path.

I would have him talk to a few airline pilots who have been through the very bumpy ride the profession requires. Don't let him talk to some angry, jaded airline pilot as there are many of them out there. Find a guy who loves aviation but has been around the block and will give an honest assessment of what your son might expect if he chooses this path. Profession pilots have extremely difficult career paths to a decent paying job. He needs to understand that.

You mentioned that you are a college professor. If I'm not mistaken, most college employees receive a discount if their children attend the college their parents are working at. If he can get a big discount for going to college where you are, I'd say get a degree in ANYTHING your college has to offer. Nobody cares about what a pilot's degree is in. They just want someone with a 4 year degree. I would sugggest NOT sending your child to an expensive private university like ERAU. It's a great program (I went there) but unless he gets some seroius scholarship money, you'll have way too much debt for what you get. As mentioned above, if possible, get a degree in something that he can fall back upon when he inevitably ends up furloughed and unable to find a pilot job. I wish I had done that.

After he gets the degree, I'd start looking at a good Part 141 program with possible connections to an entry level regional airline job. If it were me, nowadays I think I'd lean toward All ATP's (see banner ad on top of this page) or similar. The big schools usually have some sort of financial aid available, too, although I'm not sure what kind of interest rates are available. Or, he could use his "backup degree" we mentioned earlier, work his day job, and then obtain his ratings on nights and weekends. The disadvantage to that is that it will take much longer to obtain his flight ratings than if he just went to a structured Part 141 program to get them done in a timely manner. The other disadvantage is that sometimes guys get "comfortable" with that higher salary of their day job while flying on the side and have a difficult time giving up that day job for a flight instructor's low pay once that day comes.

Has he considered the military? I'd consider that route. There are many military pilots on this forum who could tell you about that career path if you ask.

It's good that you're asking this stuff on behalf of your son. If you or your son have any other questions, feel free to post or private message. You're getting good advice from the guys posting above me in my opinion. Good luck.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

My son's goal is to be a pilot -- ideally, regional and eventually with a larger commercial airline. I am a college professor and welcome his desire to pursue his dreams.

My friend's mother was a chemistry teacher at NYU and he was able to receive a tuition-free education.

Is there any possiblity that your institution offers a similar arrangement? If so, I would highly recommend that path. An aviation degree is VERY not necessary to go far as a pilot.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

here is a website from a professional pilot association. (ALPA)

http://www.clearedtodream.org/

 

[jman90]

Read and reread Ualdrivers post. Spot on!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Read and reread Ualdrivers post. Spot on!

UALdrivers post is accurate...

The big question is who do we want flying US jets in US airspace in the decades to come?

If not Americans then whom?

If we don't invest in our infrastructure, our economy and industry, there will be undesirables flying our jets who don't care about our country.....

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

3 factors for success

1. Four year degree

2. Licenses and ratings

3. Flight hours and work experience

Those three things are the main boxes that need to be checked to get a career job.

Most of the above posts have highlighted many of the issues with our industry. He won't walk in to a six-figure job out of college/flight school.

I would suggest getting the degree and the private pilot certificate.

Free tuition at the University where you teach would be nice. Take a summer and go get the private license at time-intensive school.

If that is not an option and if he were my son, I would strongly consider Purdue university. The have an excellent program. I have always enjoyed flying with their alumni.

Good Luck,

Jeff

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I have flown with many FO's who were quick to discuss how they had over $100,000 in student loans from their flight training and college education. Unless you have parents to pay off part of that loan or you win the lottery, you will never get out from under that amount of debt on a pilot salary. In todays market figure a couple years flight instructing (under $20,000), A couple years flying freight if you are lucky ($30-40K). Then back to some regional with many years at low FO scales trying to build the illustrious PIC turbine (many years making under $40K). At what point in the first 10 years of your aviation degree are you going to start paying back these loans? These loans are not forgivable in Bankruptcy. You are looking at over $1000 a month loan payments. This is almost half your take home salary for a lot of your initial years. And realize this career continues to see a downward push on pay and work rules. This is not your daddy's airline career any more. Add onto all this cabbatoge, the multi crew pilots license, about 15000 furloughed pilots, and a sour economy and things are going to be going in the wrong direction for a while.

I seriously don't know how anybody can get into aviation anymore. I would say the only way I would do it is through the military If I had to do it over again knowing what I know. The only reason I stay is that I have a sugar mamma that has allowed us to keep a descent QOL and saved us during Furlough.

Good luck with you and your sons choice. But If he really loves to fly let him get his Private License and find a career that will let him get those $100 hamburgers.

 

[surplus1]

Thank you so much; you made my night. I will go to the edge of the earth for him. As I always tell him, if you try in life, I will support you in your hopes and dreams.

Congratulations on your support for your son. Read again the post by ualdriver it contains very good advice.

I once had the 'dream' of becoming a professional airman. It was a very long time ago and conditions have changed a great deal. Today's 'dreams' of being a pilot are not the same as they used to be back then but if your son's dreams are real - by that I mean a true love of flight for the sake of flight - he should not give them up. "Where there's a will there's a way" is as true today as ever it has been.

My own dreams were realized and I'm proud to know I made it happen. There were many bumps along the way, many disappointments and many moments of sheer exiliration. As I look back over the years (I'm retired now) I've never regretted a single moment despite the many hardships. But, I've always been 'in love' with airplanes and the experience of flight; I still am.

I was never motivated by money and so the times when I had none and worried about feeding my family, although difficult, never changed my dream. Neither did the times when I made a great deal of money. It's a roller coaster ride this career - but there is no other like it if you truly love to fly. From the Piper Cub, to the adrenaline of the military fighter, to the majesty of 'heavy metal', to the far away places with strange sounding names - it's all been a blast.

If you are not familiar with the poem High Flight please read it. As a college professor you will understand it. Let your boy read it too. If it means nothing to him ... you'll have part of your answer. You can find it here: http://www.potw.org/archive/potw433.html

If I can be of any help do not hesitate to PM me. Although I'm no longer active as a professional, I am still up to date with relevant information.

Good luck to you and to your son.

 

[pilotyip]

Really look at any branch of the military that offers flight training. It is one of the surest paths to an airline cockpit. He has to love to fly and not care the things listed in my trailer.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Keep in mind these facts:

Price to obtain a Private, Instrument and Commercial Certificate is at least $75,000 and with the CFI for Single and multiengine with Instrument Instructor add about $15,000 by the time he's there. This can be less in rural areas and more in the more expensive metro areas.

The least expensive way to do this is to attend a local community college while learning to fly up through the commercial at a local airport (if you can find one).

Then complete the CFI training through a University CFI course over the summer before attending that school so as to hopefull get a job flight instructing at that school while becoming a student pursuing a degree in engineering or something other than aviation-BS.

Professor: I'm glad to see you've come on to this board for the real story from real professionals who are in this business.

Caution: Beware of college marketing that assure students of a job upon graduation, other than flight instructing.

This is not to say he will not get a job as an airline pilot. He will get that job if he obtains the licenses and keeps after the Regional Airline jobs. His pay will start at around $20,000 and will eventually get to about $80,000 after 10 years. This type of job is real work and stressful too, what with 4 to 7 legs per day. So the bottom line is: No one should go after this job unless they really love flying for flying, otherwise it is all work with little pay.

 

[Fly91]

"Ualdrivers" post is just what I would have said.

Tell your son to pick another career...UNLESS...he is prepared to possibly never make it to the major airlines and be prepared to spend many years in the regionals "even if he makes it there" working alot more hours than he probably wants to, literally live in houses while on the road (called crash pads) with 6-10 other poeple sleeping on mattresses scattered around the house, not being home too often and literally make peanuts for possibly 10 years as a co-pilot, because captain upgrades are at a stand still in the regionals. Because nobody is going to the majors anymore.

The good ole days of aviation is long gone, and it will not be returning anytime soon, at least not in the USA. I have friends working for foreign airlines (Cathay Pacific, Korean and JAL) and they make a ton of money with amazing quality-of-life. Its just not going to happen anymore in the USA. If and when it picks up here in the USA, and thats a huge "IF", the 10's of thousands of ex-airline guys who are out of work will be first to get hired back.

If he wants to fly, tell him to stop thinking airlines, and at least look towards corporate jet flying. Its still an industry that has taken a big hit lately, but there's a MUCH better chance of him literally going right to the top in just 3-4 years after he has his licenses and ratings, where in the airlines, forget about that happening. WHY......in the corporate industry its all who you know and how you meet people and impress people. If you're simply "liked" by an aircraft owner/chief pilot somewhere in the corporate industry you can leap over a high time jet guy for a job, I've seen it happen dozens of times and just as recently as last month. If he wants a nice career as a pilot, corporate jet flying is the way to go, not the airlines. Not anymore.

No sugar coating, just the facts.

As far as the degree goes, its always better to have one. Major airlines require a 4-year degree, and I believe the regionals hire with 2 or 4 year degrees. Corporate flying does not require anything but experience. I know guys flying Gulfstream 550's without degrees and guys flying Learjets without degrees. It will just be nice to have one in case it ever came down to the ole "weeding out process" happens for a job. But any degree will do. Obvioulsy a 4-year degree from a top aviation college would be better for a pilot, then a degree in Business Administration from a non-aviation school. But don't break the bank going to a special aviation school. Get the licenses and ratings at the local airport, and the degree wherever you can afford to send him.

Good luck.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Obvioulsy a 4-year degree from a top aviation college would be better for a pilot, then a degree in Business Administration from a non-aviation school.

Fly91: I can not agree with what you say here and I don't think most of the Board would agree either.

A degree in Aviation Science or Aviation Management or Aviation Whatever (Unless it's Aviation Technology with an A&P) doesn't help in the piloting profession, it's just the FAA pilot licenses that count. Really, if a person just has the proper FAA certificates and then also has a degree in Engineering or an IT degree that is better because it sets that person apart as someone who did it the more difficult academic route, providing a real back-up education. An Engineering Degree or something like that distinguishes that person, plus it provides a backup to get into something else once the glory of 5 to 7 legs per day, delays on delays, and sleeping in the crew lounge on those strangely curved torture chairs wears off.

 

[pilotyip]

College can be a waste of time

(oldie fits here) The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a liberal arts degree that leads to a job at Starbucks. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with FedEx, then that prospective pilot should go to college. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do. My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s.

 

[Caveman]

Price to obtain a Private, Instrument and Commercial Certificate is at least $75,000 and with the CFI for Single and multiengine with Instrument Instructor add about $15,000 by the time he's there. This can be less in rural areas and more in the more expensive metro areas.

While I agree with most of what you and others have written your price quotes for training costs are a bit exaggerated. Check out this link:

http://www.flymfs.com/204.html

$38K for PVT, COMM, INSTR and MULTI. Price is guaranteed in writing and includes all books, equipment, checkrides and housing. That's just one example. At this particular school he could get all the above plus his CFI, CFII and MEI for $47K. That also includes all equipment, books, checkrides and housing.

Learning to fly isn't cheap, but if dad can get him a free or discounted college education where dad works and the kid can beg/borrow/earn $47K he will have all he needs to get started on a flying career. These days $47K is what a mid level luxury SUV costs.

In the interest of full disclosure I went to Mazzei for all but my PVT certificate, but this isn't a promo for them. I want to show the OP that it is possible to get quality flight instruction for less than the $100K figure folks are tossing around. Yes, I definitely would recommend Mazzei but I also think AllATPs is a good program too.

 

[Fly91]

Fly91: I can not agree with what you say here and I don't think most of the Board would agree either.

A degree in Aviation Science or Aviation Management or Aviation Whatever (Unless it's Aviation Technology with an A&P) doesn't help in the piloting profession, it's just the FAA pilot licenses that count. Really, if a person just has the proper FAA certificates and then also has a degree in Engineering or an IT degree that is better because it sets that person apart as someone who did it the more difficult academic route, providing a real back-up education. An Engineering Degree or something like that distinguishes that person, plus it provides a backup to get into something else once the glory of 5 to 7 legs per day, delays on delays, and sleeping in the crew lounge on those strangely curved torture chairs wears off.

So you and most on this board really think that a degree in Aeronautical Science from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University as opposed to a degree in Business Administration from Florida State.....will hurt a pilot....going for a pilot position?

I said this:
Obvioulsy a 4-year degree from a top aviation college would be better for a pilot, then a degree in Business Administration from a non-aviation school.

Everyone here would be wrong if they do not agree with that statement 100%. But I'm sure there's someone with a wonderful story how they beat out a graduate from ERAU with a degree in basket weaving from a Jamaican college.

The guy with the degree in Aero Sci from ERAU will get the job every time over the Biz Admin guy from FL State. Every time. When everything else is equal. What moron company wouldn't choose the best suited person for the job? When hiring a professional, its morethan just the licenses and ratings, its how well rounded they are in their field of expertise. 4 years in a naviation college kills 4 years in a business college.

I never brought up Engineering degrees. This father and his son are trying to figure the best way into aviation and getting a job. An engineering degree is a waste of time, money and effort. I have met a handful of pilots with all out Engineering degrees. People who get those types of degrees usually go into those fields. Pilots mostly have any ole BS or BA degree from any ole college in the nation. Its all you need to get into the major airlines, FedEx, UPS, etc....

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

While I agree with most of what you and others have written your price quotes for training costs are a bit exaggerated. Check out this link:

http://www.flymfs.com/204.html

Caveman: Thanks for the informatiion provided. This is the best deal anywhere. At least $25K lower than anywhere else that I am aware of. And your advice to go for this and then get the education locally at Dad's college and/or maybe in cooperation with a local Community College is the way to do all this for the least money. Hopefully, while attending college the young man here can get a job flight instructing locally so as to stay involved in aviation, make a few dollars and to also feel good about his accomplishments with the help of a Dad who really cares enough to seek the advice of the FlightInfo pros instead of reading all the 4-color adds by ERAU and their Marketing Department (BS Department) and others.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I said this:
Obvioulsy a 4-year degree from a top aviation college would be better for a pilot, then a degree in Business Administration from a non-aviation school.

Sorry, but that's not my experience in this business. It's attitude 50%, pilot certificates 40% and education 10%. A degree from any school that is impressive is what a person wants to win out in the interview. How about any degree in anything from Stanford? Or how about a degree from MIT? All of those trump an ERAU degree in the competition you present. So if we continue this thought, it's get the degree that will teach you the most as a back-up and distinguish that person too. Sorry, but ERAU doesn't do much but say how that person spent way too much money on something that could have been obtained for so much less. It says that that person’s father (or the individual) never got on this Board to get the great advice we all can provide.

On the other hand, a degree in something that everyone knows is difficult and really takes some intellect to complete also says something for sure. To my way of thinking that would be an Engineering Degree, plus such a degree in this business is unusual but everyone knows that type of person has the right though process for this business.

So if I were hiring someone for a pilot positon, all things equal, I'd hire the guy with a technical degee that says that person is more capable that the next guy. Sorry, but the ERAU (nor many others) do that for me.

This is not to say the ERAU grad can't find a job because he went there. I have seen plenty of such grads that have great flying jobs, but the point is that I've also seen many many others with and without aviation degrees get those same jobs too.