Please provide advice to father...

[FCO]

Thank you so much; you made my night. I will go to the edge of the earth for him. As I always tell him, if you try in life, I will support you in your hopes and dreams.

 

[Lynxman]

Def try an push the degree outside of aviation first I'm kicking myself for not doing that the first time around. Along with doing the training pt. 61 it saved me money and in the end put me ahead of my peers by alot.

 

[Princedietrich]

Other things to keep in mind, for further down the road, are the more "non traditional" routes of professional pilots. The most common route that many of us took is the instructor to regional to major path or perhaps the military to major path. But there are many more ways to fly an airplane, get paid to do it, and perhaps have a heck of a lot of fun in the process. Sightseeing airtours, traffic watch, pipeline/powerline patrol, aerial mapping, banner towing and flying jumpers are all more or less "entry level" piloting jobs. From there you can move on to charter, cargo, corporate, crop dusting, fire bombing and of course the airlines. Granted, some of these more advanced jobs can be difficult to get into and carry some considerable risk.

Bottom line is to make sure he keeps an open mind and doesn't get locked into the mentality that he has to be left seat in a triple 7 to be happy (although it does help in terms of being financially sound).

Another point I want to make is in regard to 141 training programs. While there is very little difference in the minimum time required for private pilot in 61 versus 141, the REAL difference comes when you get to commercial. Under part 61 the minimum is 250 hours, but under part 141 the minimum is 190 hours: 35 minimum to get private, 35 minimum to get instrument rating, and 120 minimum to get commercial. In theory, this can get you to the point of being able to fly for a living in less than 200 hours.

Definitely look into the university programs because a college degree will do nothing but help his career, but I personally would shy away from Embry Riddle. Nothing against them but they're just too darned expensive, as a previous poster mentioned you could almost go to Harvard for the same price.

 

[ualdriver]

My son's goal is to be a pilot -- ideally, regional and eventually with a larger commercial airline. I am a college professor and welcome his desire to pursue his dreams.

I don't know how old your son is, but if it were my son, and he truly was serious about becoming a professional pilot, I would really have a "heart to heart" talk with him. I would explain to him that he is going to be carrying alot of debt when he graduates from college and completes his training. Far more debt than other professionals (I'm assuming you aren't going to be able to help him with his education as you didn't mention it. Correct me if I'm wrong). I would explain to him that while carrying that high debt load that he is going to have to expect very low salaries for the first few to several years of his career. Everyone is poor when they finish their professional training and college, whether you're an accountant or a IT guy or whatever. The difference is that other professionals can expect entry level salaries in the 30's and 40's and if they do well, can expect raises and career progression. Pilots can expect entry level salaries in the 20's and perhaps won't make more than 30K/year for the first several years of their career- all while trying to service 10's of thousands of dollars of debt. There is a huge oversupply of pilots in the market right now, there has been for at least the couple of decades I've been in aviation, and unfortunately low salaries reflect that oversupply.

If he still wants to do it, I would suggest that while in High School, he at least try to solo at a local airport. Almost all of us on this board were flight instructors at one point in our career. Many of us, unfortunately, have seen young people change their mind after actually having flown an airplane and seeing/feeling what it is really like. Some people love airplanes but simply aren't cut out for flying. He's better off making sure that he likes flying while he's young and hasn't made any major decisions about his college education path.

I would have him talk to a few airline pilots who have been through the very bumpy ride the profession requires. Don't let him talk to some angry, jaded airline pilot as there are many of them out there. Find a guy who loves aviation but has been around the block and will give an honest assessment of what your son might expect if he chooses this path. Profession pilots have extremely difficult career paths to a decent paying job. He needs to understand that.

You mentioned that you are a college professor. If I'm not mistaken, most college employees receive a discount if their children attend the college their parents are working at. If he can get a big discount for going to college where you are, I'd say get a degree in ANYTHING your college has to offer. Nobody cares about what a pilot's degree is in. They just want someone with a 4 year degree. I would sugggest NOT sending your child to an expensive private university like ERAU. It's a great program (I went there) but unless he gets some seroius scholarship money, you'll have way too much debt for what you get. As mentioned above, if possible, get a degree in something that he can fall back upon when he inevitably ends up furloughed and unable to find a pilot job. I wish I had done that.

After he gets the degree, I'd start looking at a good Part 141 program with possible connections to an entry level regional airline job. If it were me, nowadays I think I'd lean toward All ATP's (see banner ad on top of this page) or similar. The big schools usually have some sort of financial aid available, too, although I'm not sure what kind of interest rates are available. Or, he could use his "backup degree" we mentioned earlier, work his day job, and then obtain his ratings on nights and weekends. The disadvantage to that is that it will take much longer to obtain his flight ratings than if he just went to a structured Part 141 program to get them done in a timely manner. The other disadvantage is that sometimes guys get "comfortable" with that higher salary of their day job while flying on the side and have a difficult time giving up that day job for a flight instructor's low pay once that day comes.

Has he considered the military? I'd consider that route. There are many military pilots on this forum who could tell you about that career path if you ask.

It's good that you're asking this stuff on behalf of your son. If you or your son have any other questions, feel free to post or private message. You're getting good advice from the guys posting above me in my opinion. Good luck.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

My son's goal is to be a pilot -- ideally, regional and eventually with a larger commercial airline. I am a college professor and welcome his desire to pursue his dreams.

My friend's mother was a chemistry teacher at NYU and he was able to receive a tuition-free education.

Is there any possiblity that your institution offers a similar arrangement? If so, I would highly recommend that path. An aviation degree is VERY not necessary to go far as a pilot.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

here is a website from a professional pilot association. (ALPA)

http://www.clearedtodream.org/

 

[jman90]

Read and reread Ualdrivers post. Spot on!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Read and reread Ualdrivers post. Spot on!

UALdrivers post is accurate...

The big question is who do we want flying US jets in US airspace in the decades to come?

If not Americans then whom?

If we don't invest in our infrastructure, our economy and industry, there will be undesirables flying our jets who don't care about our country.....

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

3 factors for success

1. Four year degree

2. Licenses and ratings

3. Flight hours and work experience

Those three things are the main boxes that need to be checked to get a career job.

Most of the above posts have highlighted many of the issues with our industry. He won't walk in to a six-figure job out of college/flight school.

I would suggest getting the degree and the private pilot certificate.

Free tuition at the University where you teach would be nice. Take a summer and go get the private license at time-intensive school.

If that is not an option and if he were my son, I would strongly consider Purdue university. The have an excellent program. I have always enjoyed flying with their alumni.

Good Luck,

Jeff

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I have flown with many FO's who were quick to discuss how they had over $100,000 in student loans from their flight training and college education. Unless you have parents to pay off part of that loan or you win the lottery, you will never get out from under that amount of debt on a pilot salary. In todays market figure a couple years flight instructing (under $20,000), A couple years flying freight if you are lucky ($30-40K). Then back to some regional with many years at low FO scales trying to build the illustrious PIC turbine (many years making under $40K). At what point in the first 10 years of your aviation degree are you going to start paying back these loans? These loans are not forgivable in Bankruptcy. You are looking at over $1000 a month loan payments. This is almost half your take home salary for a lot of your initial years. And realize this career continues to see a downward push on pay and work rules. This is not your daddy's airline career any more. Add onto all this cabbatoge, the multi crew pilots license, about 15000 furloughed pilots, and a sour economy and things are going to be going in the wrong direction for a while.

I seriously don't know how anybody can get into aviation anymore. I would say the only way I would do it is through the military If I had to do it over again knowing what I know. The only reason I stay is that I have a sugar mamma that has allowed us to keep a descent QOL and saved us during Furlough.

Good luck with you and your sons choice. But If he really loves to fly let him get his Private License and find a career that will let him get those $100 hamburgers.