Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan SLI

[CptMurf]

If QOL was truly the primary factor, your relative seniority will go farther on the 200, i.e. better choice of vacations, more days off, holidays off and weekends off, because it is slightly more junior.

I'm not buying it. I think it is not the 5 bucks an hour you are whining about.

Except I don't live in MSP, which is our only 200 base. And for me that commute would be much harder. I'm personally looking forward to the possibility the Q. But without knowing how the SLI will go, or Q bases, it's a wait and see.

 

[Simon Says]

If QOL was truly the primary factor, your relative seniority will go farther on the 200, i.e. better choice of vacations, more days off, holidays off and weekends off, because it is slightly more junior.

I'm not buying it. I think it is not the 5 bucks an hour you are whining about.

You are truly living by your username. I said pay and quality of life. The pay difference is actually 5.97 difference and I live out of domicile, but based in MEM. Easiest commute to MEM because of Fed Ex.

So, if I would commute to MSP and take the 5.97 pay bump would not be worth it. Plus our 200 is fairly senior in MSP. I think I would bid about the same as I do on the 900.

 

[Yodafly]

Lots of opinions but mine has not changed, Years of service and Relative senority need to be equally weighted. This will prevent the windfall or significant loss of quality of life.

 

[suupah]

Except I don't live in MSP, which is our only 200 base. And for me that commute would be much harder. I'm personally looking forward to the possibility the Q. But without knowing how the SLI will go, or Q bases, it's a wait and see.

If you are a commuter I would avoid the Q. Thing is responsible for so many missed commutes because of reliability issues. But then again, hopefully Mesaba mx will be taking over hopefully and things will get a bit better.

 

[suupah]

Lots of opinions but mine has not changed, Years of service and Relative senority need to be equally weighted. This will prevent the windfall or significant loss of quality of life.

This, I can get jiggy with.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Why do I (as a memeber of the 6-8 year junior 900 CA group) feel like I am about to get boned so hard that not only will I have to be here at least 10 more years to get back my 900 CA seat once the downgrade comes in a couple months but I may well be put in a position that I may well not even be able to get to a 200 CA spot anytime soon. I feel like I am being set up to be forced to commute to a Colgan Saab base or sit as a 900 FO for eternity...

And yes for the record spots 15 and 16 are the new LGA spots on my pref bid. As would any JFK or EWR basing on any type... You couldn't talk me into a 748 to have to be based around NYC.

 

[Flyer1015]

CptMurf has good points. I honestly think it'll end up being straight-up DOH, with protection for current seat/base. Any future upgrades/vacancies will be whatever your seniority can hold. That'd be my best guess. I really don't think an arbitrator is going to start goin in percentages for 3 regionals, like 25% DOH, 50% SLI, and 25% whatever else. It's gonna most likely be a straight up DOH, straight up relative, or straight up whatever else. Opinions will vary, but again, I'm thinking DOH with protection for current base/seat is what will end up happening.

 

[suupah]

Why do I (as a memeber of the 6-8 year junior 900 CA group) feel like I am about to get boned so hard that not only will I have to be here at least 10 more years to get back my 900 CA seat once the downgrade comes in a couple months but I may well be put in a position that I may well not even be able to get to a 200 CA spot anytime soon. I feel like I am being set up to be forced to commute to a Colgan Saab base or sit as a 900 FO for eternity...

And yes for the record spots 15 and 16 are the new LGA spots on my pref bid. As would any JFK or EWR basing on any type... You couldn't talk me into a 748 to have to be based around NYC.

there are some pretty senior guys at 9e and xj. How big are the over ten year guys? I'm assuming the bulk of the pilot groups are around 03 and newer with a smaller group with really senior hire dates?

 

[Carl_Spackler]

It should be relative. I know it sucks to have people move ahead of you that have fewer years of service, but relative would allow all to keeps their base, seat and schedule. Schedule is the big one. Who would want to keep their seat and base but go from 18 days off to 12?

No matter what happens, there will be plenty of people that will feel screwed. I just hope it doesn't make it to arbitration. I'd much rather have 9 pilots decide my seniority that 1 arbitrator.

 

[suupah]

It should be relative. I know it sucks to have people move ahead of you that have fewer years of service, but relative would allow all to keeps their base, seat and schedule. Schedule is the big one. Who would want to keep their seat and base but go from 18 days off to 12?

No matter what happens, there will be plenty of people that will feel screwed. I just hope it doesn't make it to arbitration. I'd much rather have 9 pilots decide my seniority that 1 arbitrator.

I agree with the exception that some credit should go toward longevity. A hybrid of DOH and Relative seniority. Has this ever been done?

 

[Flyprdu]

It should be relative. I know it sucks to have people move ahead of you that have fewer years of service, but relative would allow all to keeps their base, seat and schedule. Schedule is the big one.

^^^ FALSE. This is all about a windfall grab of maintaining lifestyle on the backs (once again) of junior pilots at Pinnacle that will get destroyed by relative.

You've got the signing bonus. You've had cherry schedules for years. What else do you want now?
"Oh yeah, make sure I don't lose any of it... Thanks for all you do, Junior guys."

 

[Carl_Spackler]

^^^ FALSE. This is all about a windfall grab of maintaining lifestyle on the backs (once again) of junior pilots at Pinnacle that will get destroyed by relative.

You've got the signing bonus. You've had cherry schedules for years. What else do you want now?
"Oh yeah, make sure I don't lose any of it... Thanks for all you do, Junior guys."

I fail to see how keeping your seat/ base/schedule with a relative integration will destroy any group of pilots.

Pinnacle got the signing bonus because we have been the ones working under an amendable contract for the last 5.5 years. What else do I want? How about keeping a similar schedule to what I've had for the past few years. I'm not expecting to be able to hold tue-thu 3 day trips on the 900, but I don't think it would be fair to go to 12 days off and work every weekend either. I nothing is fair, but relative is the least unfair.

 

[Yodafly]

Straight DOH would not be accepted by our SLI team.

Therefore....

either: relative...or...hybrid...or...arbitration.

 

[CptMurf]

It should be relative. I know it sucks to have people move ahead of you that have fewer years of service, but relative would allow all to keeps their base, seat and schedule. Schedule is the big one. Who would want to keep their seat and base but go from 18 days off to 12?

No matter what happens, there will be plenty of people that will feel screwed. I just hope it doesn't make it to arbitration. I'd much rather have 9 pilots decide my seniority that 1 arbitrator.

So your saying it should be relative to protect YOUR schedule at the loss of someone else's schedule. *Nice*

 

[DoinTime]

So your saying it should be relative to protect YOUR schedule at the loss of someone else's schedule. *Nice*

Relative doesn't degrade anyones schedule. Not even yours.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

So your saying it should be relative to protect YOUR schedule at the loss of someone else's schedule. *Nice*

The idea is that if everyone stays in their seat, base and holds the same schedule there is no loss to anyone. No one gains and no one loses QOL.

 

[CptMurf]

Relative doesn't degrade anyones schedule. Not even yours.

Until the first vacancy... Then it's a slow death.

 

[CptMurf]

The idea is that if everyone stays in their seat, base and holds the same schedule there is no loss to anyone. No one gains and no one loses QOL.

But they may lose seniority (read longevity) and therefore do lose schedule and QOL, just over time. Wish I had those rose colored glasses.

The more and more that I think of it DOH is the ONLY fair way. Everything else is a fantasy in not hurting your coworkers feelings at your own loss. Sorry coworkers, don't mean to hurt your feelings, but this IS a seniority based industry based on your HIRE date.

 

[DoinTime]

Sorry coworkers, don't mean to hurt your feelings, but this IS a seniority based industry based on your HIRE date.

Your current seniority is based on your hire date at your originating airline. Your hire date is irrelevant to me. I don't work at your airline. In fact, you'll be coming to work at my airline.

 

[the palm]

The "winners" of the SLI should be from the acquiring carrier, Pinnacle. That would mean a relative seniority integration with Mesaba and then staple Colgan. Thats how I would do it anyway.