pinnacle hiring

[xrayojilp1]

Somebody e-mail this to me in late April. Read it closely. It will help you understand more......


We heard about the Richard Murphy little tatter, everyone wants to know what the hell is
the matter. Seems there was a little to much chatter, junior pilots gonna knock Wake off
the ladder.
So at Wake’s request, he’s divided this pilot group and created a mess. You don’t like
Richard Murphy, I guess? Cause he and the junior pilots won’t work for less?
Wake’s blown off Richard over a dozen times, now him and his cronies seek Murphy’s
demise. Everything you say is just a bunch of lies, at least Richard Murphy works hard and
tries.
That won’t fly, Murphy speaks for me, not this Wakefield guy. We are tired of Wake
cause he won’t even try, always selling us a big fat lie. Why? Cause Alpa National has him
hanging by his tie. We are the Mesa of Northwest in the industry eye. This time we will
get our piece of the pie.
Wake and Trenary have a little secret, it’s called a carrot on stick, recurrent is where they
leak it. Your ass is where they seek it.
75 jets are on the table, with a concessionaire label. We are tired of cleaning Trenary’s
stable. We are tired of reading your fable. You are not going to hang us from a gable with
a cable. You think we are not able?
Junior pilots have nothing to lose, Wake, you don’t fight for our current rules. You must
be confused, you think you gonna play us for a bunch of fools. Junior pilots gonna show
you and your management tools, we been kick for the last time in our jewels. Wake, we
can replace you if we choose, we have already lit that fuse, Richard Murphy gonna be
wearing your dirty shoes.
Can’t drop a trip or trip trade, now Wake wants you to drink his Kool-Aid. Junior pilots
just want to be paid, not looking for state and federal aid.
Wake, you have been given your chance, but we always have to drop our pants. We are
treated as if we our flying a Lance, this time we are taking a stance.
Wakefield Gordon has had his fifteen minutes of fame, Junior pilots think he is kind of
lame, maybe a little too tame. If you think your gonna rollover on us, your smoking Mary
Jane, tripping on window-payne, and doing too much nose caine. We don’t give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**
about you and your new job with Dwayne.
Wake if you think you and Dwayne are gonna sell us down the river, you are smoking
crack, shooting up smack. This junior pilot group will attack. That is a fact.
Junior pilots are coming to town, were gonna take you down, Richard Murphy gonna be
wearing your crown. This boy is like a blood hound.
We are tired of you and your pilot lawyer, our grievances disappear like Tom Sawyer.
Richard Murphy is our battleship destroyer.
You have already kick us in the chin, our kids dress like Huckberry Finn. This time junior
pilots gonna win, this new contract won’t be a sin, like management treating you like their
next of kin.
Junior pilots are gonna stand up tall, Richard Murphy is getting the call. This time Wake is
taking the fall, cause our butt’s are way too raw. We just want the respect of the guys
across the hall, instead of being treated like we broke the law.
Wake is like OPEC and the price of gasoline, it’s gonna be his contract with no Vaseline.
Wake has forgotten about the team, junior pilots are feeling a little mean,
hungry and lean, can’t afford to eat a butter bean.
Can’t call in honest, fatigue, or sick, Wake you are always sucking management’s dick.
Junior pilots all think your a prick, in the back room always turning a trick.
FOM more restrictive, take it with a smile, here is another memo for your file. We think it
should go to trial, but you won’t walk half a mile.
Junior pilots had to learn: extended, junior manned, mistrip with concern. Step down now
you have had your turn, you little worm.
Mistrip carries the same weight, as checking in late. We are not taking your growth bait.
Wake you have met your fate.
We don’t like what you say, you must be in bed with Kay? We need a slam dunk like Dr.
J. We are gonna take you down, I think in May. Is that OK? Cause you got no clout, like a
stained shirt without Shout. The LEC’s are gonna vote you out.
This ain’t meant to be funny, we are gonna shut the doors if we don’t see the money. We
want Richard Murphy, not a yellow belly bunny, walking around like Trenary’s little
honey.
Richard Murphy speaks for me, yea he has got the contract key. Wakefield thinks were all
blind and can’t see, that Alpa gonna sting us like a bubble-bee. Pissing on us like a dog on
a tree. Paying big fees, everyone is down on there knees and they don’t even say please.
Wake you have had your fun, what’s it like being Trenary’s new son. Junior pilots know
Alpa eats it’s young. You won’t stand behind anyone that don’t make you come. Your
gonna cause us to loose a ton. Do you think we are all dumb? We think you are a bum.
We think Richard Murphy has already won. Like the American colors he don’t run.
JH and TL are on board, Blacksheep too. GB will be with us in just a few.
BBs will play ball or they are through.
DD knows the plan, so does the MSP Man. We got one MEM fan. Vote out the MEC,
we think we can.
Our new leaders don’t swallow, never will they wallow. They are definitely not hollow.
This is all for now,
there will be more to follow.................

Sounds to me somebody gots WAY too much time on their hands!

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

You've been here two months.. let's talk again in 6 months.. Let's talk if no more jet's arrive.. Timing is everything at 9E, talk to FO's who rode the couch for 14-16 months... Be happy you are where you are, but you are still on the bottom. Do 4 CHS in a row and then we will see how happy you are...

In six months you will still be here bitching and whining. Isn't there a better forum to discuss these issues?

You must be a pleasure to fly with.

 

[dondk]

In six months you will still be here bitching and whining. Isn't there a better forum to discuss these issues?

You must be a pleasure to fly with.

Hmmm.. Don't see how I was bitching an whining...

I simply call is as I see it.. I do enjoy coming to work, but I am a realist when it comes to Pinnacle.

It gets to me when some "wonders" from my pilot group come out and make it seem all rosy and wonderful at Pinnacle.. 1 month of reserve and 98 hours!!!
While that worked for you, it was your timing on getting to the line and getting to DTW. Did your classmates in MEM or MSP get the same?

We get others that make similar comments that you can upgrade in less than 6 months (that is today, 1 year ago it was 3 years, in 6 months it may be back to 2+ years). Others make comments about growth and shiny new aircraft. At some point #129 will be on the property. Then let's talk about growth and shiny new aircraft.. 8390A is not all the shiny anymore and it is not even 4 years old.

Dirty Sanchez.. you got lucky.. good for you.. I hope you stay off of reseve and hold that 98 hour line for the next 4 years in the right seat...

 

[xrayojilp1]

We already have over 100 aircraft. If you just get hired on and miss this new hire captain slot you have to realize you will not upgrade for probably 4+ years. We won't grow during the contract negotiations.

Look what happened on the last contract. We shrunk, we furloughed, we lost half of our airline to Mesaba. People sat on reserve for 3+ years. If you don't corrolate that with contract negotiations then you drink as much company Kool Aid as ole' Sanchez.

Just wait and see. And remember why its happening.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

"Only" a 30% increase in our fleet size by sometime in '05. That is horrible.

True the contract negotiations may drag on, but at least we are still hiring. My "two months" puts me 100+ up the seniority list.

I could hold a better line in MSP. I hated getting paid to sit at home in DTW this past month. My classmates are holding lines in both MEM and MSP. The two classes prior to me were on reserve for less than two weeks. Compare that to anywhere else. Things aren't perfect at 9E, but they never will be. The posts here make it sound like TSA or Great Lakes, which is not the case.

I will upgrade by the end of next year. If not, at least I will not have to worry about being at the bottom of the seniority list. I don't like the Kool-Aid, just try to stay positive. If I spent as much time as some contemplating and prophesizing about the doom and gloom that nobody knows about, I would go crazy.

 

[John_W_Thompson]

"New hire Capt slot"

Anyone care to elaborate at length what the chances are of someone who's possibly interviewing in a few weeks, with appropiate qualifications (time in type and TT), of getting a "new hire Capt slot". I have been agonizing over this one for a few weeks now.

I understand if hired, I would be hired as an FO, and then if a CA vacancy exists, I could bid for it.

I am afraid the window of opportunity will close before I can make that bid.

I hear a lot of talk on here about the dynamic situation on this topic (quick upgrade for qualified new hires). Why did this situation come about? How long will it last? Will some of the now and becoming qualified "Gulfstreamers" turn down their first upgrade?

Things I do not care about: seniority, quality of life, base

Things I care a LOT about: chances of making quick upgrade after hired, and then flying my a%% off.

Indifferent: pay (for the immediate future anyway)

Final thought:
I have read here there's a possibility of more planes (70's?) after the 129 are there, & after the contract negotiations and whipsaw dust settles. When would this occur, and would Pinnacle find themselves in a similar situation again (low time FO's unable to UG). Comments?

I appreciate the help immensly.

 

[TurboAWD]

xxxxx

 

[John_W_Thompson]

12345

 

[xrayojilp1]

Space Cowboy,

This will almost certainly be the last new hire captain vacancy in the immediate future. Don't listen to some of the Kool Aid drinkers on this site, they don't know what they are talking about, two months of good times is not what you want to listen to, listen to people who have been at the company for 5+ years.

We won't get more planes after 129. We have about 105 now? I know its well over 100 but don't know the exact number. If you need PIC turbine this could be tempting if you have plenty of time otherwise. Reserve captains have been flying quite a bit lately. At LEAST 40-50 hours a month if not many more. Expect to be extended and junior manned into your days off and get 7 - 8 days off a month on reserve. This may change soon though and there is a good chance the company will furlough you, the reserve model that they use is ridiculous. They actually PLAN to use the reserves every day and don't PLAN for unexpected contingencies. When things slow down and start to backslide will they demand to keep this model or will they allow things to get back to "normal"? I don't know, all I do know is that furloughing during negotiations is industry standard and our managment is dirtiest of the dirty, expect it.

Don't expect to ever get a line though. It would be way over 4 years and being here longer than that is practically on par with being in hell. The most important issue that you need to consider is "can you fail a checkride and still be competitve for another job" if you come on as a new hire captain you will fail. I don't care how good you are and how much you know, expect it. Our company check airmen LOATH new hire captains. I wasn't a new hire captain but I know most of those guys and I don't know any that didn't fail at least once. Most failed several times.

If you really want my advice, listen carefully. \

OH MY GOD DUDE, DON"T DO IT. RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN. WE ARE IN HELLLLL OVER HERE. THIS IS THE WORST JOB IN THE INDUSTRY. YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF MAKING HALF AS MUCH IN A NON AVIATION JOB AND WAITING FOR SOMETHING BETTER. DON'T EVEN COME FOR THE INTERVIEW THEY WILL LIE TO YOU AND TRY TO BRAINWASH YOU. GO TO SOME COMPANY LIKE COLGAN OR GULFSTREAM AND FLY A 1900 FOR 30000 YOU WILL COME OUT AHEAD IN THE LONG RUN AND BE A BETTER PILOT FOR IT

RRRRUNNNNN RUUUUUNNNNNN RUUUUUNNNNN. AAAAAAHHHHHHHRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH



Have a nice day

PinchNickel

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Thank you

Pinchnickel,

That was a great response. Thank you. I assume you really are a Pinnacle Capt. and been there a long time. I appreciate your wisdom.

May I be succinct?

I need 1000 hrs turbine PIC and I don't care anymore about what days off I have to get it. Can I do it at Pinnacle?

I am 37. Married. 8 yr old son.
4 years of RSV at 2 regionals SIC incl 1100+ CRJ.
I don't need any more SIC (got plenty).
2 leg commuting to RSV has become a way of life for me. Line? Schmine-
I worked Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, and Superbowl Sunday last year, while 10-15 yr younger Captain (!) go party it up. (BTW happy newcomers I am not bitter, these are facts. Live with it.)

Furlough coming up (me).

I have experienced some of my own hell in this lovely seniority based industry.

I have talked to the main hiring guy (names are inappropiate in this medium I feel) at Gulfstream, and he said come to Pinnacle. Why? I know he knows stuff - because he must talk to people here since the 2 companies have such close ties.

>>This may change soon though and there is a good chance the company will furlough you, the reserve model that they use is ridiculous.

Why? Can you elaborate?

>>Most failed several times.

This was the most powerful paragraph in your letter. When they failed, what happened? Retrain? Downgrade? Back on the street? After sinking thousands into these people, don't they try to work with them? How did they fail more than once? Can I have an experienced (typed with many recurrents) union rep ride in the sim during the checkride? Can I get a videotape of it, or some other means to police them? Did the guys you knew who failed come from the CRJ (not trying to sound like I walk on water here folks)? Why specifically do the check airmen not like the street guys? Why has the company not fixed the rash of sim expenditures?

Again - I sincerely appreciate your help.

 

[miles otoole]

Space,

Why not look at CHQ or Mesa where the romored upgrades are under a year. Are they still hiring street CAs at Mesa? Give them a looksie.

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Mr. Otoole,

That is a good idea. My next stop will be a street Capt, or as close as I can get to it however. I will avoid USAir regionals. I am currently looking into Otter type stuff if Pinnacle is a no go.

Space

 

[xrayojilp1]

Most companies that I know of (the way we used to do it) use reserves as a backup in case sheeat happens. Without reserves we would not be able to cover probably 30% of our flying. Right now every reserve flys every day. They take up the slack by making line guys work on their days off and extending people.

This was the most powerful paragraph in your letter. When they failed, what happened? Retrain? Downgrade? Back on the street? After sinking thousands into these people, don't they try to work with them? How did they fail more than once? Can I have an experienced (typed with many recurrents) union rep ride in the sim during the checkride? Can I get a videotape of it, or some other means to police them? Did the guys you knew who failed come from the CRJ (not trying to sound like I walk on water here folks)? Why specifically do the check airmen not like the street guys? Why has the company not fixed the rash of sim expenditures?

If you have crj time already this might really help (not that it REALLY matters but it might help if you tell the guy giving your checkride) I hate to say this but ever since I have been here we have really had a bunch of prick examiners and checkairmen. With many exceptions aside there are a hugh number of lowlife cowboys in control of your career and fate. When I say people failed twice I mean once on the oral and once on the checkride in the sim. People have even failed their line check/fed ride too. Part of this is that, hundreds of exceptions aside, we don't exactly hire the cream of the crop at least that isn't the policy of our HR. You do get two attempts at each ride so, especially with time in the plane, you should be able to get through with a little luck. As far as having a union rep in there, if you had to go with someone well known as a psycho you would be better off calling in sick because, really, who is perfect. This is like saying f u I know you don't plan to give me a fair ride so I have someone in here to make it happen. You would be even more likely to fail.

On reserve if we get 129 and keep them you would possibly get 500 hours a year. But people around here have a way of getting exactly the opposite of what they want, who knows. Most of the guys here have been here for less than five years, we have a VERY junior pilot group. There are people who have been here less than five years in the top 15% of our seniority list. Most of these guys have no idea what it is like without the extreme growth that we have had since getting our first CRJ. This is about to come to a screeching halt in the first part of 2005. Before we started growing at this company when we had jetstreams and saabs we had guys on reserve for over 3 years who hardly ever flew. We may keep growing, I would be lying if I said otherwise, but it is nothing to count on and I would give this probability less than a 5% chance.

It really is a gamble, and the odds aren't good. All I'm saying is that this isn't the great deal it sounds like on the surface. Don't drink the Kool Aid. Consider it a backup plan, like not A or B, maybe plan Y or Z, though I really have a hard time even saying that. My previous post's rant being my gut feeling.

 

[resetjetfo]

MEM perspective

The replies have mostly been right on the money about 9E, kinda depends on the perspective of the pilot. Lear 70 especially tells it like it is, so he has some very dedicated enemies in the company. I am now in MEM, was in DTW; am a FO , bidding CA.

From a MEM view, don't think too much about the street capt vacancies as attainable. Two reasons: 1) over 100 guys on the seniority list, right now, who can hold capt; 2) the vacancy was a loophole for management to use in its' games.

As to reason 1, many of the senior FOs here are playing poker with the upgrade, trying for one last holiday season with killer schedule, vacation bid,etc. They know they can hold any vacancy bid, so don't feel much pressure to upgrade yet. That has started to change after the street capt slots appeared, and contract negotiations broke off for now.

As to reason 2, the vacancy more than doubled from initial award to final. Many reasons speculated, but two have real crdibility around here. Everyone knows we will have lots of people timing out this year, CA and FO. So that's one reason for more slots on the final. But more people here in MEM are beginning to suspect the additions were also to create a loophole for adding certain people to the seniority list. Mainly some of the professional instructors, and a certain individual management would LOVE to see as Chief Pilot. Can you say, "Hatchetmen?"

Sorry to cut down your hopes, just trying to show the reality. New vacancy for Jan1 has less than 15 CA slots. Any bets on how senior those go now?

Good luck.

 

[Lear70]

The most important issue that you need to consider is "can you fail a checkride and still be competitve for another job" if you come on as a new hire captain you will fail. I don't care how good you are and how much you know, expect it. Our company check airmen LOATH new hire captains. I wasn't a new hire captain but I know most of those guys and I don't know any that didn't fail at least once. Most failed several times.

That's not really true at all. I didn't fail anything during my initial training as a street CA and neither did any of the other guys who had been flying left seat in a jet with EFIS and FMS equipment. Not the oral, and certainly not the sim ride, and I pray to God I'll never have to experience that - of course given my "special situation" I study my A*S off for two weeks before each sim but so far it's worked.

There were a few guys coming from turboprop command that had some trouble in the sim, a few guys with language issues who had some trouble on the oral, and one or two guys with attitude problems who busted out, but if you bent over backwards, drank the kool aid, and took every beating with a smile, the examiners left you alone for the most part.

Out of our class there were four internal Saab CA to Jet CA transitions - two of them pinked the sim ride once then returned to finish. There were initially 8 street captains and two instructor new-hires and we lost one of the instructors to a good fed job, annother to stupidity (kept pissing off the instructor and management so they let him go). Of the 8 Captains I believe 4 failed an oral or sim and were re-trained, none of them had any glass time or had only been flying turboprops.

Bottom line, if you are considering a street CA position, you'd better have some STRONG Captain experience and/or STRONG glass experience, preferrably time in time, because it IS an honest-to-God Firehose Experience and you'll be under one HELL of a magnifying glass since you're going to be turned loose without any experience with the company. The guys who are going to upgrade in Vac 04-07 after being here 90 to 120 days online are going to be under that same microscope.

I'm hearing some interesting things about those 5 Street Capt vacancy as well... something about some of the instructors being allowed to come to the line without resigning their DAL seniority and our Director of Training coming over to get a seniority number so they can put him into the C.P. slot - that would be 4 or 5 right slots taken right there.

I'm starting to seriously doubt if anyone who hasn't already hired on here will see a CA upgrade in the next several years. If they start class as an F/O in September, they'll finish class right about Dec and the last Vacancies for the last of the A/C deliveries will come out in probably Jan for an April or May effective date. It'll be close, especially taking the fence-sitters into account.

p.s. I thought Vacancy 04-08 only had 7 or 8 CA slots? I'm sure they'll go VERY senior - per the contract they will automatically get Christmas and New Year's off during training in December... But some of those guys may not realize that and not bid it, not wanting to be in training over Christmas.