Pilots in the job market--

[Hawkered]

The fact that Netjets is the only place paying a proper wage in the fractional industry, not to mention the signing bonus, could mean the very end for Options and Flexjet. An employers inability to pay a competitive wage and compete for the best employees will only lead to a degrading of the service through low morale and high employee turnover.

For those of you who ask whether Netjets will survive on thes "high" salaries, I oppose you by asking the question, "Who can afford to not pay these salaries?"

 

[gunfyter]

Pilot salaries vs cost per hour to fly a Citation X.

These are rough estimates cause i dont have the exact figures handy.

A X Captain making 100K and flying 650 hours per yr.

100 K / 650 = $153/ hr.

How does this compare to the other costs of flying the X to the Owner?

Fuel @ $3.50 / gallon. Fuel flow 2000 lbs per hour minimum.

$1075 / hr for fuel.

$2000/ hr hourly fees

$1600 / hr monthly management fees.

Aquisition costs = Big money.

Not including aquisition costs $4700 per hr of which only $153 is for the pilot. prior to our new contract maybe it was $100 per hr.

For $53 per hour difference will I lose my Job? I do not think so.

Remember Marquis pax pay OVER $8000 per hour to fly the X. only $153 goes to the pilot. LESS THAN 2% GOES TO THE PILOT! Our $50/hr raise is covered by a 6/10ths of 1% increase in costs to Owners! NJA raises fees 3.5% every yr.

My pay could double to $200K per yr and not stop anyone from flying on the X.

 

[Publishers]

No one is saying the pilots should not have received a raise or that they have no value to the organization. It is a necessary part of the product offer. The discussion revolves around the unique nature of the product that RTS came up with. The nature of the beast is that it comes with an extremely high operational cost to the concept.
The use of 121 examples is not particularly valid but then neither is the NBAA example. This is different. In the end, as with airlines, it is the total cost not just pilot cost that will keep NJ in business or not. As the value of the aircraft themselves play such a significant role in the picture, it will take more years to really see if it can work day in and day out for the people it has to work for in order for the company to see growth.
I have been at this long enough to see the many dimensions. I have no crystal ball. I do know that a business executive who might well be close enough to know said the other day that NJA was the one business that Buffett thinks he should have skipped buying. Only time will tell.

 

[Fozzy]

"Only time will tell"

I am willing to bet NJA will be around far longer than WB will be. So I doubt he will ever feel that way.

Anyone want to take that bet?

 

[Turbinehead]

WHo da mufug

Who the mufug stole my aviatrix avatar?

Was it you, Netjetwaife? Keep my aviatrix avatar out of your jihad.

 

[netjetwife]

Not me! I don't know how to attach an avatar, much less, steal one... Is Jihad destined to become the "J word" the same way that tipping became the "T word"? Will I have to keep saying...."Hey, I didn't mention it first, he did!"

MAY THE NEW YEAR BRING A NEW BEGINNING FOR ALL FRACTIONAL PILOTS

 

[netjetwife]

My husband helped me out with an avatar--his choice. He thought it would be "hilarious" in light of the accusation that I'm leading a Jihad. The photo was taken during our remote assignment in Egypt. The boys and I joined my husband--non-command sponsored. We lived in a walled compound on an Egyptian airbase. It was a fascinating experience. In my belief for standing up for one's rights, I refused to cover my hair. I challenged their way of thinking and proved that wearing your hair loose doesn't mean you're a "loose" woman. At Peace Vector 3 the motto was "small victories". We all realized that cultural differences are often hard to overcome. Was it a personal Jihad to stand up for the rights of women? You could say that. We can also say that it is a Jihad --struggle for what is right--for frac pilots to demand professional wages. Small victories...first a card drive...then a vote...can lead to big wins...a strong union that fights for its members to be treated respectfully and professionally. Thinking of a Jihad in the true definition of the word, who could be against it?
Challenging the status quo,
Netjetwife

 

[Turbinehead]

I love it baby

My husband helped me out with an avatar--his choice. He thought it would be "hilarious" in light of the accusation that I'm leading a Jihad. The photo was taken during our remote assignment in Egypt. The boys and I joined my husband--non-command sponsored. We lived in a walled compound on an Egyptian airbase. It was a fascinating experience. In my belief for standing up for one's rights, I refused to cover my hair. I challenged their way of thinking and proved that wearing your hair loose doesn't mean you're a "loose" woman. At Peace Vector 3 the motto was "small victories". We all realized that cultural differences are often hard to overcome. Was it a personal Jihad to stand up for the rights of women? You could say that. We can also say that it is a Jihad --struggle for what is right--for frac pilots to demand professional wages. Small victories...first a card drive...then a vote...can lead to big wins...a strong union that fights for its members to be treated respectfully and professionally. Thinking of a Jihad in the true definition of the word, who could be against it?
Challenging the status quo,
Netjetwife

I love it baby very stylish ride.

By the way, which one are you in the picture? It must be very difficult carrying everyone on your back.

Did that camel belong to a Strong Union and what were her work rules that day I wonder. Fair representation or out there on her own poor little dromedary. Shame on you for using a non-union cameljocky.

 

[Publishers]

I know one thing-- the management of the camel was trying to take the business down so they could leave with a big golden parachute. They ran the camel into the ground selling rides to Americans over at the air base until he broke down. Without proper medical and dental, he ended up homeless and living off the courtesy and good will of locals.

 

[Turbinehead]

Speaking of the T word

Not me! I don't know how to attach an avatar, much less, steal one... Is Jihad destined to become the "J word" the same way that tipping became the "T word"? Will I have to keep saying...."Hey, I didn't mention it first, he did!"

MAY THE NEW YEAR BRING A NEW BEGINNING FOR ALL FRACTIONAL PILOTS

Now that you mentioned the T word, what did you tip that poor nonunion Cameljocky. Should have been much extra due to Camel over MTOW!

Wait did i just make a funny there......camel mTOW? Muahaha.

I crack mythelf up.

 

[netjetwife]

You may laugh, but we DID tip generously. It was seen as a way to spread good will and improve relations with the Egyptians. My husband was attached to the Embassy; we had diplomatic status and took the role seriously. It's a lesson that company managers would be wise to heed. Showing appreciation goes a long way toward building good morale, which in turn leads to greater productivity. Unfortunately, that common sense "rule" is too often swamped by something else that's common--greed.

Along with money, we tipped the camel owner a cold soda, dripping wet from our ice chest--a luxury to most Egyptians. Considering the heat that day, I think the soda was more welcome than the money. Remember, it's not only the money that matters. It's the tangible expression of appreciation for the service rendered. For pilots, that's true as well. Whether the tip comes from an owner, or is a bonus from the company, being told that your effort was valued is motivating.

 

[Turbinehead]

Management???

Whether the tip comes from an owner, or is a bonus from the company, being told that your effort was valued is motivating.

Geez, Netjetwife. If i didnt know any better, I'd say you sounded like a well trained Management type uniquely skilled in positive motivation techniques.

Maybe you should be the CEO of your own company! Sounds like you have all the principles downpat for being a successful entrepreneur!

 

[netjetwife]

Knowing how to treat people isn't a unique skill. All that is required is a dedication to fair play and enough morals to do the right thing. Isn't one of the basic tenets of our country a fair wage for a full day's work? Hasn't it be proven over and over that the carrot works better than the stick? So what happened? I suggest that corporate greed has supplanted fairness in the workplace. If strong unions are required to level the playing field, whose fault is that? Put it to the vote. If the pilots are satisfied they'll vote for more of the same; if not, they'll install a union to represent their interests. What could be fairer than that?

 

[Turbinehead]

Ms. Wife

...strong unions are required to level the playing field... What could be fairer than that?

I have a problem with your basic premise.

Strong Union (s) is / are not always required to level the playing field in companies. SOME companies, the more progressive ones especially, proactively level the playing field to prevent problems. Some actually provide a near ideal workplace where their employees are self-actualized...and HAPPY...where they actually take an ownership role! Imagine that!!!

Is this a concept you can grasp, or are you so far down the Strong Union road / (aka JIHAD aptly named by some in here) that you cannot see the bright stars in the big sky for the flashlight in your universe.

Pilots in the job market today, believe me, are savvy enough. They dont need to be prompted to look up.

Now, dont you have laundry to fold and a kitchen to clean, Ms. Wife?

 

[netjetwife]

Knowing how to treat people isn't a unique skill. All that is required is a dedication to fair play and enough morals to do the right thing. Isn't one of the basic tenets of our country a fair wage for a full day's work? Hasn't it be proven over and over that the carrot works better than the stick? So what happened? I suggest that corporate greed has supplanted fairness in the workplace. If strong unions are required to level the playing field, whose fault is that? Put it to the vote. If the pilots are satisfied they'll vote for more of the same; if not, they'll install a union to represent their interests. What could be fairer than that?

I'm quoting myself since you apparently missed part of my post--or more likely, chose to ignore it. There probably aren't many complaints at companies where pilots are treated professionally, but at those that there are , why would you begrudge them the right to raise their voices in protest?

No need to answer that question, Turbinehead. Your demeaning attitude towards me tells me that you have no problem with people being treated disrespectfully/unfairly. I, personally, admire those who stand up for themselves and fight for what is right.