Pilot Shortage

[jsoceanlord]

you know capitalism can really be a crock, with flight schools having to prostitute themselves and make all lies about shortages, etc. and the feds have to look the other way as schools train suspicious foreigners, etc., all for the almight dollar

that's capitalism.

i'm not dissing it, just saying how it is.

you've also got about a zillion flight students nievely entering flight schools without appreciating the financial obstacles in operating 50 million dollar jets (and consequent lack of jobs to operate them)

flight schools and the feds all encourage that nievete

 

[bobbysamd]

Career Pilot

I agree with Jsoceanlord, especially his last two paragraphs. Just the same, I would say that if you're a young person that you should go for it. Know the risks extremely well and don't be naive about the career. There are no guarantees. You may not make the goal you set for yourself and have to turn elsewhere for a career. There are plenty of people whose careers began and ended at the airport at which they learned to fly.

Pilots will always be hired for many of the reasons Kit Darby and others cite, such as retirements, but you won't see prodigious numbers of pilots hired. Kit's pilot shortage proclamations are sophistries. I appreciate Austpilot's point about hiring at foreign carriers, but those carriers usually hire their nationals before they consider expatriates. Many of these carriers will train their nationals to be pilots and not consider expats.

Older people should think it through carefully before changing careers. Age discrimination exists in hiring, especially at the commuters, and probably elsewhere. There is still plenty to do in aviation besides airline flying, such as corporate, career instructing, and other things.

Once again, know the risks.

 

[Austpilot]

Skydiverdriver

Mate - it depends on the airline, take Cathay Pacific for example - they hire US citizens, Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies, english - pretty much anyone who meets their quals when they interview in various parts of the world and gets through gets hired.

Who knows whats going to happen - I appreciate Bobbysamd's point that some of the majors around the region hire nationals only, but look, I know for a fact that certain airlines are getting cagey as they don't know where they are getting there crews from over the next expansion period. Airlines like Emirates are looking, a mate of mine got hired by them for a 777 slot not that long ago. I know of a steady stream of Australians that are getting into Dragonair, Cathay, Emirates, Japan Air, Singapore Airlines.

Thing that I'm trying to say is that when the airlines get the expansion going - not if, but when, there will be full on hiring, lets face it, you look at the stats, there are comparatively less people learning to fly these days, the numbers going to have to equalise one day, it's the law of averages and the good thing is, as the numbers of trainees drop and the airlines reject those that are not made of the "right stuff" can only leave good opportunities for the ones that are left behind and are serious about an airline career.

The other point is that there will be a global shortage, and with a global shortage comes reduced and or "slackened" nationality requirements - don't laugh - I've seen it happen in Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore.

The other thing is most of the Asian carriers prescribe to the UK ATPL in order to upgrade to F/O or command - anyone that knows anything about the UK system would know that it is pretty full on and bluddy expensive!

Contrary to the wank factor as well - airlines like Singapore are criticised for hiring cadet nationals over high time ego bulging crusty old farts - well, these young Singaporean kids and Hong Kong guys in Cathay are very smart kids, they pick up on systems and computers in a tenth of the time it would take an old codger, they also do umteenth hours in the right seat of a Lear 45 around asia before let loose in an S/O's seat of a heavy. Surprisingly enough, it's always these bright young guys in the S/Os seat that pick the mistakes of the two geriatrics in the left and right seats!

No I'm not an S/O - I'm a right seat geriatric on the 747-400!!

 

[TurboS7]

Asia/Pacific, yes what a mass of nothing, imagine flying from Miami to SAN and having not one place to stop for fuel or land. Welcome to the Pacific.

 

[Timebuilder]

>>you know capitalism can really be a crock, with flight schools having to prostitute themselves and make all lies about shortages, etc. and the feds have to look the other way as schools train suspicious foreigners, etc., all for the almight dollar

No, that's the advertising industry.

The feds don't look the other way when foreign nationals are trained. They PAVE the way. Any idea of how many Suadi princes have trained in US figthters over the past 35 years? A whole bunch, to put it mildly. The training of terrorists happened because the socialist element in the US says it isn't politically correct to secure our borders, and deport violators. Capitalism will take full advantage of what US law permits, but it is not the source of the problem. In fact, it is the "keystone" of our freedom. If it were otherwise, you might be told what your life career would be by a government representative while you were in the eighth grade. Flying career? No, comrade Smith. YOU will be a plumber.

Flight schools prostituting themselves? Let's put that to rest. As an American consumer, you are expected to exercise due dilligence, in other words your own investigation, of the schools you attend and the true likelihood of that heavy iron job like the one in the picture. Kit Darby? Ron Popeil? PT Barnum? I'm a little guilty of not doing a better job of investigating, myself. Then again, I had no false hopes of flying a 747 for anyone, since I got into this to fly, not "live large".

If you are just starting out now, you could get a big jet job. It will most likely take you 20 years to get there, but it's possible. Being female and having a father at the airline can shorten that time, but with the shrinkage in large jet jobs, outpacing attrition, it will take much longer than was projected five years ago. The thirst for smaller jets won't dry up any time soon. Old equipment will continually be replaced inthe US, but growth in the "traditional" US majors will be a trickle, at best. The market will continue to grow carriers like Jet Blue, Spirit and Southwest, due to reduced costs. I'd forget about working for Delta, United, American, US Air, etc.

No, Virgina, there never was a pilot shortage. Our laws, the same ones that guarantee our freedoms, let advertisers put a spin on the truth that lets young pilots believe there is a pot of gold waiting for them at the end of the rainbow.

There is a pot of gold, but you are unlikely to get there.

As Walter used to say...."..and that's the way it is".

 

[publisher]

pot of gold

Pot of Gold or not, people will still come to this industry. Believe it or not, there are people who would actually come to do this for $50k a year and be happy as the dickens just to be doing something like that instead of what they do all day.

This is not the result of advertisers, Air Inc's, or anything other than it is way cooler than managing your local hardware store.

 

[bobbysamd]

Yep . . .

I would have been thrilled just to get a class date and would have been happy with $50K, as long as it would have been fair pay and was accompanied by fair treatment.

Looking back, as a single person I could have done quite nicely on $50K a year, notwithstanding other opportunities to earn money on my days off.

 

[Flightjock30]

If you get on with a regional by age 23 and earn a captain slot by age 25 I don't see why you couldn't get on with American, United, or Delta if you had a few thousand hours turbine PIC when those airlines were hiring. If they do happen to hire at that pace again like in the late 1990s that is. But of course supply and demand does play its part and even the most qualified won't make it to the best majors. Good luck.

 

[bssthound]

It ain't what you know . . .

it's who you know.

Nothing is better than having someone who will walk your resume' in to the hiring folks. Like it or not, that's how you stand out from the other 10,000+ applicants in the stack.

 

[Austpilot]

TurboS7?

Oh well, some of us like the challenge that International flying presents - Crossing lots of countries going to Europe is alot like what you were talking about, probably more interesting though.

Fly safe.

 

[bobbysamd]

It's NOT always who you know

I tried to get on with SkyWest for six years. In 1988, they had low mins of 1000 total, 100 multi and 100 instrument. I was way below their multi and instrument mins in 1988, but I started sending in stuff anyway and continued to update. No response, except for their polite rejection postcards. That was fine and I understood, because I was below mins - although I would hear stories about people being hired below mins.

A year later, I had my ATP and exceeded those mins. I updated, completed an app, updated and filed a fresh application, and just got back postcards. Finally, in 1994, I heard from a former student who got on with SkyWest. She offered to walk in an app. I worked it up; I recall even including another $15 app fee to ensure I hadn't fallen through the cracks. No response. I updated once or twice more before throwing in the towel.

Point is, even knowing someone doesn't always work.

 

[TWC]

If flying is what you really want to do regardless of the so called " pilot shortage" go for it. I recommend not going to an over priced pilot factory. I think you get the same quality if not better training from a small FBO. All the little bells and whistles and the large schools is marketing, an instructor is an instructor regardless on where they teach. Good luck!

 

[Flightjock30]

Not trying to get another debate started, just agreeing with TWC on going to a good FBO that is not overpriced. I learned at Mazzei Flying Service in Fresno, Ca. Great school and not that expensive! Got me to a regional by age 24! Earned a 4 year degree from a state college and always have that diverse educational background to back me up in case flying does not work out for me.