Pilot Shortage

[bobbysamd]

counterpoint

True, Pub, there are plenty of folks with pilot certificates. I'm just one.

Now, if the airline in question held fast to its 5000 hour requirement and found no takers, then, yes, it is facing a shortage. Drop the requirement to 4000 hours and poof! the shortage vanishes. Ergo, there is no pilot shortage. Now, if it can't find anyone after dropping the requirments several times, then there is a need and people should sign up with one of Kit's 737 type providers and get typed. That fills a need. However, if Kit trumpets a need for 737 pilots when there is no such need, that is a snowjob.

 

[skydiverdriver]

I have never heard anyone talk about a pilot shortage. Now, I have heard them talk about a shortage of qualified pilots, but that is completely different. I think this may happen, and was beginning to happen before Sept 11th. Of course, that changed everything, and nobody could have predicted it. We are in a recession, and the attacks made it worse. Of course you can't rely on information that was given before the terrorist act. I think we will have a shortage of QUALIFIED pilots, but not for a couple years after it was originally going to happen. Good luck, and don't give up.

 

[kilomike]

pilot shortage--Never!!

There never was, and never will be a pilot shortage. Bobbysamd put it best.

I would definitely not object to more people learning to fly for pleasure or personal business, however.

The "pilot shortage" is manufactured by Kit Darby, and money-hungry flight schools feeding off of people's hopes and dreams. I think it's sad that so many people get taken advantage of in this manner.

 

[350DRIVER]

I think most if not all flight schools or I should say your "bigger" more notable schools are very guilty of selling the "Pilot Shortage" propaganda- They would not be as successful as they are today without some false advertising and "selling" of this idea to the young and nieve that "only" want to be "airline pilots" and thats all they want....- If it were only this easy....... But if you put things into perspective and look at this whole process that the flight schools are selling "new" airline pilot wannabes-they don't know any better and they truly believe in the flight school and have no doubts in their mind that there is a "pilot shortage"- very good marketing techinques BUT sad because this is not the case at all and by the time the would be "airline pilot" realizes this they have already sunk a large amount of money into these "programs" and for the most part their hands are tied with very few options or "ways out" to turn to...... A few prime examples are Tab Express and Kit's little money maker- BUT they market their concepts and ideas so well that the young next generation of pilots "believe" in them without knowing any better-

I don't think their will ever be a "pilot shortage" but as long as your Tab Express and Kit's of the industry are alive and well they will continue to brainwash and "sell" the ideas to the "young" next generation of pilots who only know or "want" to believe in these misconceptions... Supply will always outnumber demand in this industry.

cheers
350

 

[publisher]

good

I think that one has to realize though that these schools like TAB would fail if they did not have success.

You need to know that TAB just placed some of their students in the last 30 days and so the people that they placed achieved what they wanted to.

Now that is not because of a shortage as discussed.


While Bobby and I debate whether people really come to the desire for this profession because Kit or TAB or anyone else says there is a shortage, most pilots have the self confidence to believe that they can compete with anyone for the job. As long as there are some good positions out there to aspire to, there will be people to compete for them.

 

[bobbysamd]

Desire

I think the great majority of people aspire to the profession because they love airplanes and aviation. That was my sole motivation to learn how to fly. When Kit declared there is/was a pilot shortage, that was the icing on the cake. I thought, well, gee, is this something with which moi can make a career? I found that prospect to be more than exciting; it was a dream come true.

I believe that quite a few other people want the career because of the potential to make money and enjoy a great lifestyle. Others do it because they are military pilots and flying airplanes is all they know. That does not mean they don't love aviation any less. Then, you have the son or daughter of an airline captain, whose father and maybe grandfather was an airline captain. The young person starts training because it was pre-ordained. I remember running in to one or two Riddlers who said they were flying because they had nothing else to do. These students frustrated me. Look up the Law of Readiness in the FOI.

I remember when I started my first full-time flying job that it didn't seem like work. Do it because you love it.

 

[pilotyip]

Shortage of experience

There may have never been a pilot shortage, but there certainly was a shortage of pilots with the potential to rapidly upgrade. In 2000 we were upgrading pilots to DA-20 Captain after three months on line as an F/O, who three years earlier would not have meet our DA-20 F/O hiring minimums. The regionals were hiring 500 hr pilots with under 100 MEL, true there were always people looking for pilots jobs, but we got real deep in the experience barrel. Air Inc provides an excellent forum, about 1/3 of our pilots come from the Air Inc. system because we get to see the guys and talk to them before we bring them in for the interview. I wish they would have had something like this in the 1980's when I was "between jobs". Pilots who avoid using thier services are missing some great opportunities to sell themselves and find out what is going on in the market. Kit Darby does a great job.

 

[pilotyip]

Experience Shortage

There may have never been a pilot shortage, but there certainly was a shortage of pilots with the potential to rapidly upgrade. In 2000 we were upgrading pilots to DA-20 Captain after three months on line as an F/O, who three years earlier would not have meet our DA-20 F/O hiring minimums. The regionals were hiring 500 hr pilots with under 100 MEL, true there were always people looking for pilots jobs, but we got real deep in the experience barrel. Air Inc provides an excellent forum, about 1/3 of our pilots come from the Air Inc. system because we get to see the guys and talk to them before we bring them in for the interview. I wish they would have had something like this in the 1980's when I was "between jobs". Pilots who avoid using thier services are missing some great opportunities to sell themselves and find out what is going on in the market. Kit Darby does a great job. It is $200 well spent for the latest from the mouth intelligence out there. We will be there in July and hiring.

 

[Snakum]

PilotYip ... what were the mins in 2000 for Captain? For FO? You're with Ameristar, or was it Reliant? Just curious.


I take it the closest we've ever been to a 'shortage' was in the early 60s.

I spoke with an older retired UA guy at a local FBO once who told me he was picked up by United in 1963 (if I remember correctly) with a fresh Commercial ME and no high school diploma and sent to FE training on a 707. Boy ... talk about a firehose!


Minh
Sometimes SE Piston Corporate Geek

 

[Timebuilder]

I know one of those guys. You'd be amazed how many were hired that way. I was about twelve years too young for that little hiring frenzy.

 

[bubba]

Re: Experience Shortage

Air Inc provides an excellent forum, about 1/3 of our pilots come from the Air Inc. system because we get to see the guys and talk to them before we bring them in for the interview. .................................................................................... Pilots who avoid using thier services are missing some great opportunities to sell themselves and find out what is going on in the market. Kit Darby does a great job. It is $200 well spent for the latest from the mouth intelligence out there. We will be there in July and hiring.

You seem to be refering to the AirInc, Job Fairs. After reading some of your archived posts's, I assume that you are actually involved in hiring at your company. Considering that, I will accept your assertion that the AirInc job fairs are worthwhile.

However, I must call you on the overall tone of the post. You defend Kit Darby because of his job fairs in a string that was discussing the propoganda that he spreads that some consider detrimental to the profession. You're mixing apples and oranges. If you can defend his continuous propoganda, I welcome it. Defending other areas is just a red herring.

aka bubba

 

[trigeek]

I have to agree with most on this board, NO Pilot Shortage in the 14 years I've been flying. I also agree it all goes in cycles. There may be times where it is difficult for some regionals to find highly qualified prospects but there will always be more aplicants than positions.

As far as the current industry crisis, it will pass. The Captain I was flying with the weekend after Sept 11 put it this way. "Every decade there is a major crisis that adversly effects our industry. In the 70's it was the oil embargo, the 80's it was the Patco stike and deregulation, the 90's had the Gulf War and ensuing recession, now we have 9-11. It is all cyclical and will pass."

I'm not making light of the situation or of those on furlough (many are very good friends). I'm just offering a perspective given me by a Captain that had been around a very long time.

Regards.

 

[Simon Says]

I will have to disagree with everybody out there about the pilot shortage. Every airline out there has a pilot shortage. It is true. In fact there is a shortage at every single flight school, cargo outfit, and airline out there.

With me standing at 6'1" I am not part of the pilot shortage, but I know that they exist. In fact walking through MEM I saw a really short Northwest pilot. He was walking tall (figure of speech) and proud. We all must stop denying the short pilot existance. They are people too. They can do the job of a tall guy, like myself, and some times even do a better job. I think that it takes courage to move your seat to the full forward position and to take lip from the flight attendant on "who let the kid upfront to fly the airplane".

For all of you short pilots out there. I am with your you. I do not deny your existance and I will be here until we win this fight.

 

[Snakum]

"Short people got ... no reason ...
... short people got ... no reason ...
... short people got ... no reason to live!"

 

[Simon Says]

HUH........I dont get it.

 

[Timebuilder]

An American singer/songwriter named Randy Newman had a pop hit in the '70's called "Short People". The post by Sankum is a reference to the lyrics.

 

[Av8trxx]

I think that it takes courage to move your seat to the full forward position and to take lip from the flight attendant on "who let the kid upfront to fly the airplane".

For all of you short pilots out there. I am with your you. I do not deny your existance and I will be here until we win this fight.

Thanks!

.... from all 5'2" of me! LOL

 

[bobbysamd]

Short Pilots v. Pilot "Shortage"

I'm not exactly Shaquille O'Neal myself, so I appreciate these comments.

All the pilot apps I ever saw said that applicants had to have height "sufficient to operate all controls." I guess that was the airlines' way of weaseling around the ADA, etc. That's a subjective judgment. It is totally bogus and discriminatory.

I knew a young lady who was washed out of UPT. AFA grad. Very sharp person who could fly. Very formidable person and personality as well. She said the AF booted her because her legs could not reach the rudder pedals of a T-38. While I didn't doubt her, I have a feeling that other factors might have entered into her washing-out.

I knew a young man who was an AF officer. Also an AFA grad. This fellow could really fly the airplane. He wasn't accepted into UPT because he was too short. He probably was. But, it had no impact on his ability to pilot an airplane.

Go figure. One theory I heard is the public doesn't want to see short pilots, but tall, erect specimens.

 

[kilomike]

Short pilots

I have flown for many years with a man who owns a single engine plane. He has been a corporate pilot, and has flown many different aircraft types. He is only about 5' tall, but his skill, knowledge, and talent for flying rises far taller than his actual height. I enjoy flying with him the most out of anyone with whom I have flown.

It's a shame that the USAF had to lose out on some fine pilots and officers over their heights. It's not THAT hard to get a plane adjusted to accomodate shorter height! My friend's Cardinal's seats are modified by being able to go a bit more forward.

Public image should not be a sufficient reason to not hire a pilot just because he or she is short



Kilomike

 

[Timebuilder]

Didn't I read somewhere that shorter people are less prone to G-Lock? Less leg area for the blood to go and hide in, I think.

>>Go figure. One theory I heard is the public doesn't want to see short pilots, but tall, erect specimens.

Careful, Bobby! They'll start filtering out the message board on the Cyber Sitter software!