Piedmonts Training "ONE LESS PERSON"

[Sig]

It has nothing to do with being a mathlete. It's all about thinking. The 100 is the plane where the problems arise, right?

It's all about what nerds would call an aliquot partial.

If you know a kid's worth 108#, then you're on the ball.

If you see the fuel after taxi is 3100 or less, you know that max ZFW for the planned flight is the problem.

Just look at the numbers, and play the aliquot game. It's wayyyyy too easy.

I know how many bags immediately the 134# rags you, plus 216# for the kids. You just have to look at the restrictions and relax. It will work out for you.

Add up the adults? Too much work. Go with the figures you have, play the pluses and minuses, and read the release.

** I just thought of something. I've seen releases from two dispatchers that somehow come up with a payload + bow = 32400. THAT will kill you. But the other numbers are there... Too much sweat.

It's odd that the restrictions almost always work out to a ZFW of 31351 when it's tight.

*** FURTHER edit: 108 is a magic number, with a root that's shared by 20 and 30. It all goes to hell in the winter, though. I'll give you that.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I'll save you all the misery

al·i·quot [al-i-kwuht]

–adjective
1.Mathematics. forming an exact proper divisor: An aliquot part of 15 is 5.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

It has nothing to do with being a mathlete. It's all about thinking. The 100 is the plane where the problems arise, right?

It's all about what nerds would call an aliquot partial.

If you know a kid's worth 108#, then you're on the ball.

If you see the fuel after taxi is 3100 or less, you know that max ZFW for the planned flight is the problem.

Just look at the numbers, and play the aliquot game. It's wayyyyy too easy.

I know how many bags immediately the 134# rags you, plus 216# for the kids. You just have to look at the restrictions and relax. It will work out for you.

Add up the adults? Too much work. Go with the figures you have, play the pluses and minuses, and read the release.

** I just thought of something. I've seen releases from two dispatchers that somehow come up with a payload + bow = 32400. THAT will kill you. But the other numbers are there... Too much sweat.

It's odd that the restrictions almost always work out to a ZFW of 31351 when it's tight.

*** FURTHER edit: 108 is a magic number, with a root that's shared by 20 and 30. It all goes to hell in the winter, though. I'll give you that.

Aww darn.

My brain blew up all over my new keyboard. What a mess.

Now where the fudge is my calculator?

 

[Sig]

Yeah. All of the above.

I received my first college credits in Calculus. I was also 13.

I'm a nerd.

*for an example of aliquot partials in action:

consider 124 x 17.

120 x 17 = (12x10 + 7x120 [which is 7x100 + 7x20])= (1200 + 700 + 140) = 2040

2040 + (4x17 [which is 4x10 + 7x4]) = 2040 + 68 = 2108.

I guarantee you could do that in your head- the trick is remembering the bastards that make up the parts.

 

[NCFlyer]

Let's get back to the form.

I have complained about that form since the day we started using it. Head math or calculator, what ever. But any W&B form for a DHC8 that has up to 20 numbers just to reach ZFW is way to complicated and prone to errors.

The old PDT loading schedules were so easy. X paxs = bags between Y-Z. You were in the zone around 80% of the time.

 

[kf4amu]

Yeah. All of the above.

I received my first college credits in Calculus. I was also 13.

I'm a nerd.

*for an example of aliquot partials in action:

consider 124 x 17.

120 x 17 = (12x10 + 7x120 [which is 7x100 + 7x20])= (1200 + 700 + 140) = 2040

2040 + (4x17 [which is 4x10 + 7x4]) = 2040 + 68 = 2108.

I guarantee you could do that in your head- the trick is remembering the bastards that make up the parts.

I've been doing that for a while but on a much much lesser scale. I was always calling it interpolation...

No way can I do what you just did, but simpler things come pretty naturally.

 

[Sig]

But any W&B form for a DHC8 that has up to 20 numbers just to reach ZFW is way to complicated and prone to errors.

No, no, and furthermore, no.

First, make sure the MAXPL adds up to the restricting weight; it's usually obvious, but it can change with temp as that changes with the Aerodata... uh, data, and be aware of what's what when you're in strange places (HHH!).

After that is assured, just look at two numbers: Max PAX, Max BAGS.

You're done.

It isn't 20 numbers, it's two.

Swap bags for pax. Know that -1 pax = +6 bags, +7 bags = -1 pax, 2 kids = 216# (which is +1 pax or +7 bags), understand that 3/2 of a carry on is 1 bag, and you can very easily swap out cargo for either.

A big limiting factor is the "wellllll.... I have X bags and Q pax inside."

Get a specific number of bags, and STOP. This is how you STOP: "Captain, we have to get a specific number of bags...."

Problem solved, very easily.

*added +/- where needed.

 

[NCFlyer]

Sig,

I'm with you. The release usually has the max payload, divide that however you want between pax & bags. It does continue to amaze me how many intelligent folks have trouble with simple math.

But my point is you could have as many as 20 different entries on the W&B pad just to reach ZFW. At least I think it is 20 and I'm to lazy to look it up. I'm talking about BOW, closet adjustment, ACM, 4 cabin zones with adults & kids, 3 cargo zones with checked bags, carry-on bags & cargo. That many entries for a simple W&B is going to lead to errors.

 

[FirstMate]

I always thought it was funny how if you and the capt each worked the actual whizwheel, there was always quite a difference with the calculated index!

Check your PM's NCflyer

 

[FirstMate]

I could spin that dam wheel 10 times and get 10 different index numbers each time!

 

[Flyin2low]

If a Dash8-100 leaves EWN and another leaves CLT, but flies at half its speed. Where do the aircraft meet.


In CLT because that one is still broken.

 

[Sig]

Did you like Modlin's Magical MinMax Madness more than the WhizWheel?


I can't reconcile a Max that is less than the Min on the 300. It drove me nuts.

 

[Booker]

Did you like Modlin's Magical MinMax Madness more than the WhizWheel?


I can't reconcile a Max that is less than the Min on the 300. It drove me nuts.

A-frigging-men, brother! I've got a way to go, but I think I'll be criticizing that stupid program until I retire.

 

[NCFlyer]

It was simple.

However unlike the 100/200 you couldn't look at the 300 like a min-max range. It was 2 separate numbers and needed to be addressed as 2 separate CG limits. Maybe we should have used different terms instead of min/max, i.e. forward/aft. If the you didn't meet the min, use what ever empty/occupied seats that "adjusted" the min. Then do the same with the max. You just had to quit thinking like it was a range.

After I explained it to several people that way, almost all agreed that it was very easy. You either met the number or didn't. Instead of the current whiz wheel where 10 pilots come up with 20 different solutions to the same CG problem.

Sig, I find it hard to believe after that math lesson you just gave us, that you would have any trouble with the min/max W&B.

 

[rustypigeon]

So anyway. I guess AW is still there then?