Piedmont Jets?

[the turtle]

It's my understanding that Mesa is supposed to have 70 seaters on U's property by end of 2004 (328 Dude-help me out...am I correct?). However, JO has been strangely quiet about the additional 50 RJ's we're suppose to be flying for U. Rumor here is that it might not happen. Hopefully, those jets are comming your guys way.

the turtle

 

[328dude]

Turtle: Only thing I know about MESA is that they will be around untill 2008.

Heres a question for you PDT and ALG guys.
Would you allow 70 seaters on your property that are staffed 100 percent by mainline pilots, if they payed you the 70 seat rate for flying a 50 seater?
Im just curious how you would vote on that proposal.

Cat: What are you talking about? THe 100 percent is for the CRJ-700 series only. THe 50 seaters are 50/50 and cannot drop below that per Paragraph 5 Lines 56-61 of LOA 83
Mainline would like to keep the original 25 70 seaters in house since it max's out the aggreements language of on 25 large SJ's being flown at a wholly owned. Any other orders for the CRJ-700 would have to go to an affiliate. Mesa? Probably. THey cannot go to MA because they cannot operate two types.
However, I think mainline is seeing that they will have no choice and place the original 25 70 seaters at a wholly owned becasue of the single type and not classified as "seperate equipment type"

Later

 

[LearLove]

"Heres a question for you PDT and ALG guys.
Would you allow 70 seaters on your property that are staffed 100 percent by mainline pilots, if they payed you the 70 seat rate for flying a 50 seater?
Im just curious how you would vote on that proposal. "

At first look yeah sure I would. But its not really the pay or aircraft size that matters, but the size of the order I'm concerned about. 25 70 seaters between us and PDT ain't gonna cut it. Mainline can have the 70 seaters as long as we and PDT get a order like yours. We've got 45 Dash 8's currently at ALG so I want an order for somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 aircraft for us and the like PDT. Nobody looses their job. The mainline guys have a future you guys have a future what about ours? Its not like we didn't participate, we gave just as much as anybody else. I know I'm biased but the downgraded WO guys gave the most. Now maybe a mainline guy gave back more $$ but going from 200 grand to 150 grand doesn't hurt as much as 55 to 36 give or take a few grand. So what F'in gives why are we being treated like this?

 

[Desiday]

Learlove, I hear you guys at ALG are being extended like crazy and worked like dogs. They need to put on some more new hire pilots to fly the Dash 8's while they're here. I also hear of quite a few people quitting and even one getting fired (what an idiot). You guys need the flying help now, no matter what the future might bring.

 

[dhc8ap]

In response to Spike, that's would be Mrs. to you.

 

[Dash8]

Learlove, I hear you guys at ALG are being extended like crazy and worked like dogs. They need to put on some more new hire pilots to fly the Dash 8's while they're here. I also hear of quite a few people quitting and even one getting fired (what an idiot). You guys need the flying help now, no matter what the future might bring.

desi,
careful with the condemnations, you don't know the guy, or if he was an 'idiot'
what he actually did was stand up to the company about the very crap that you said you were hearing about, obviously the company didn't like it so they canned him, he'll be back 'fore too long. they(mgmt) were way out of line firing him.

as for the 70seater question, i'm with lear on this, i have no problem with mainliners taking 100% of those seats, but we must get something in return (not necesarily 70seat pay on 50 seats that seems like an odd agreement to make) but rather guarantees of 50 seater deliveries that offsets the attrition of the dash's, so we could keep all our people on, and take furloughees from mainline. myself and mostly everyone i've talked to here at alg feel that is an equitable solution
of course mgmt won't think that because they don't like giving us any kind of guarantees, or allowing us any improvements since they already think we're a bunch of spoiled children

 

[XPILOT]

CRJ'S

Any one know how Midway fits into this picture.They just started another class and they still only have 6 or seven CRJ'S.

 

[328dude]

Right now, that is all Midway will get for now.

I should have clerified the above question. It was a question based on the knowledge that you would get 50 seaters already staffed 50/50. Would you allow mainline to place them at a wholly owned and flown 100 percent by furloughed mainliners if they payed you 70 seat rates for the 50 seater?

Only reason Im asking is this might be a possibility if the mainline pilots will not change the language regarding the 70 seaters at a wholly owned. What would you guys like in return if you allowed them 100 percent on your property? Would you allow an airplane on your property if you knew that you would never get a chance to fly it?

Think carefully, this might be a real question to vote on later on for ALL wholly owned which in return would extend the total number of 70 seaters CRJ-700 series placed at the wholly owned.

 

[Dash8]

328, i ran your idea up the ol' flagpole here (alg) the past couple days....none of the few i talked to saluted... I don't think that pay adjustment would be an acceptable solution to us

now imho based on many-many conversations with fellow pilots at alg over the past couple of weeks
what i've gleened from all those talks, is that we would most likely allow 100% of the 70 seaters with GUARANTEE's, that means delivery schedules and whatnot, of 50 seaters that will at least offset any losses of dash's due to leases or exorbitant inspection cycle prices, and to ensure that we can keep our current staffing and allow furloghees to come in (after the first 25 50seaters to keep the 50/50 from loa81 in effect) we all believe that that is not asking much at all, just a future for us and our company.

ps. while we'd obviously prefer to get the 25, i don't think there'd be much of a problem if we split them with pdt (obviously the numbers of matching 50seaters we'd have 100% of for the sake of loa81's 50/50 split would have to be adjusted)

 

[328dude]

Well heres the thing. Both ALG and PDT's MEC should not even talk about 70 seaters untill you guys recieve your order for 50 seaters. This is a negotiating tactic by mainline to pit one against the other for the next order. All three will get 50 seaters, but by agreeing to the above, you set yourself up for a downfall and mainline wins. Get the 50 seaters, then negotiate for the 70 seat stuff including the above proposal if it comes to that. By no means, agree to anything without a firm order. It could mean the end for either ALG or PDT if you do.

I think we all three need reassurance of the plan for the future of ALG and PDT before we agree to anything.

When that happens and orders are confirmed, then we move forward with expansion. J4J's was not created to grow each airline, it was created to assure that all pilots on the current senority list's at the wholly owned are protected. Let's get everyone protected, then we can talk about expansion at the wholly owned.

 

[FR8mastr]

328,

"J4J's was not created to grow each airline, it was created to assure that all pilots on the current senority list's at the wholly owned are protected."

J4J has nothing to do with us at the WO with the exception of our jobs. It certainly does not protect my or your senority number. It gives half of our jobs to ML guys. So unless you are in the top half of the list, or like PSA you almost triple the size of your airline, you are hosed.

 

[SRMairlines]

328DUDE:

Dude...

How come you know so much? You seem to know everything every pilot in america doesn't know??? Tell us where you get your friggin info and then maybe if it is from a credible source other than from another pilot, FA, dispatcher, Mechanic we might belive you. Us bros at PDT want jets... and we don't believe we are getting them... but you think we will... after all what would you know... you are just a pilot like me. Please tell me are Dave Siegel hiding behind the 328Dude Mask.

 

[328dude]

FR8? PSA needed to double not triple. PSA has 28 aircraft. We have a order for 60. PSA grew by 2 airplanes and everyone on the senority list gets to stay. Same goes for you and how many aircraft you have (Which I don't know). Same scenerio. I don't know where you come up with your math at. This is not that hard. I should have said respective wholly owned company. Sorry. Take your number of aircraft, times 2 and that's what you need to protect everyone. We needed 60, that's what we got.
How many do you need. Remeber, there are alot more airplanes to be ordered.

SR: I don't give a hoot if you believe anything I say or not. Pi$$ off!.

 

[FR8mastr]

We have 45, for the moment. The way we have figured it, at best there are 90, 50 seaters left under the U scope of 315. Our management says that the 85 170's at Mid A count toward that total of 315. (true? I dont know) That leaves only 5, 50 seaters left for both ALG and PDT. Our prospects do not look good. If in fact the 170's dont count toward the 315 total, then we both have a small chance. But only if we keep a good number of Dashes going for a long time.

 

[328dude]

I don't know who came up with 315, I have been told 425 Total including MA, Firm Orders plus all options. However, this total seems to be changing monthly.

Who knows.