PBS is coming to Express Jet

[Nevets]

What the erj guys will lose is dropping trips and still getting paid the original line value whereas we just get guarantee.

What are you talking about?

 

[flynd94]

What the erj guys will lose is dropping trips and still getting paid the original line value whereas we just get guarantee.

WTF? Who told you this? I drop a trip off my line I lose the value, I trade into a lower value trip it decreases my line value. If you are referencing our vacation drop language then yes. You bid your vacation and a trip touches either side it's dropped and you are pay protected.

They can have that when they pry it from my dead, cold hands.

Vote NO early and often!!

 

[COOPERVANE]

If EVERYBODY at ASA with scheduled reduced rest overnights made the flight late enough to delay the flights the next morning they would go away GUARANTEED!!

Instead you guys come on here like little whiney beeches and cry about 8 hour overnights. I for one have NEVER successfully done a scheduled RR overnight. I ALWAYS have to get my duty in time adjusted. Just ground the airplane for an hours worth of MTC.

If we ALL did this every time we had a RR overnight, THEY WOULD GO AWAY!!

 

[Flybywire44]

ASA's PBS is a quality system. ASA's ALPA did an excellent job building it—Enjoy.

But, Reserves get hosed more than ever under the current system.

 

[777forever]

If EVERYBODY at ASA with scheduled reduced rest overnights made the flight late enough to delay the flights the next morning they would go away GUARANTEED!!

Instead you guys come on here like little whiney beeches and cry about 8 hour overnights. I for one have NEVER successfully done a scheduled RR overnight. I ALWAYS have to get my duty in time adjusted. Just ground the airplane for an hours worth of MTC.

If we ALL did this every time we had a RR overnight, THEY WOULD GO AWAY!!

This is rediculous

 

[enuffalready]

This is rediculous

and true. If the company wants to give an 8.05 RR in between two 5 or 6 leg days on the 50.. and their only excuse is that its legal, then fine..everyone understands that RR overnights happen, but when you get them twice on a 4 day it gets dangerous. When those first flights in start running 45, hour, 1 1/2 late they will make the change to normal rest.

 

[wms]

WTF? Who told you this? I drop a trip off my line I lose the value, I trade into a lower value trip it decreases my line value. If you are referencing our vacation drop language then yes. You bid your vacation and a trip touches either side it's dropped and you are pay protected.

They can have that when they pry it from my dead, cold hands.

Vote NO early and often!!

I'm talking about vacation. With PBS there are no conflicting trips to drop, so you only make guarantee unless you sacrifice days off to get up to 75 credit hours. Also, if you're at less than 75 hours you still get paid 75 hours in a vacation month, but extra work does not go on top of guarantee, so to make extra money you have to work for free until you get to 75 hours.

 

[wms]

What are you talking about?

Sorry, I was talking about the dropped portions of trips conflicting with vacations.

Signed, Mr Ambiguity ,(-;

 

[rjacobs]

WTF? Who told you this? If you are referencing our vacation drop language then yes. You bid your vacation and a trip touches either side it's dropped and you are pay protected.

WTF are you talking about?

In a vacation month your trips drop that your vacation touches. You are NOT pay protected for those trips, you are pay protected to at least guarantee. If the LV of your remaining trips and your vacation is over 75 than obviously you get paid that.

 

[Baronman]

I'm talking about vacation. With PBS there are no conflicting trips to drop, so you only make guarantee unless you sacrifice days off to get up to 75 credit hours. Also, if you're at less than 75 hours you still get paid 75 hours in a vacation month, but extra work does not go on top of guarantee, so to make extra money you have to work for free until you get to 75 hours.

This stinks. 75 hours 3 times a year doesn't cut it. I like to work a little during vacation to get my pay up to the high 80's.

 

[Speedtape]

and true. If the company wants to give an 8.05 RR in between two 5 or 6 leg days on the 50.. and their only excuse is that its legal, then fine..everyone understands that RR overnights happen, but when you get them twice on a 4 day it gets dangerous. When those first flights in start running 45, hour, 1 1/2 late they will make the change to normal rest.

The new rest rules will fix this problem. Reduced Rest will expire.

 

[Speedtape]

This stinks. 75 hours 3 times a year doesn't cut it. I like to work a little during vacation to get my pay up to the high 80's.

Work during vacation? Why take one? Make more money in a vacation month than guarantee? That can be done with PBS in a vacation month, but you will be giving up days off--obviously.

 

[Speedtape]

2500 erj pilots say PBS is history. Many IAD pilots are fed up with PBS and are lobbying against it with the erj pilots in the crew rooms and on overnights. There are "no PBS" notes in their cockpits and nopbs.com. A five minute ride on the hotel van with erj pilots saying they're open to it means nothing, they're just avoiding confrontation. The fact is they're altogether opposed to it.

PBS is a good system with good features, but the company is misusing it. PBS will be gone, and I'm glad.

PBS is the only thing I have ever voted "yes" for and I regret it. I'm voting no on any TA with PBS in it and encouraging the erj pilots to do the same.

Even our own mec, ie, NT is taking sides with the company saying vacation low will be eliminated and many of the QOL features will be lost.

I've seen Expressjet's line bidding and it blows what we have away.

Many? Maybe a few. I worked in IAD. After 3 months, many liked it! Your diatribe has many broadbrushed generalizations that simply are not true. Face your Fears! Everything will be OK. And, learn to bid!

 

[Speedtape]

We need more than control of pairing construction. With the company having control of the threshold you can't bid guarantee, or a 3 on - 4 off schedule.

The Company sets the TLV. You set the PCT. If you set the PCT, it neuters the TLV.

The threshold has nothing to do with pairing value or productivity. PBS simply distributes pairings--under your direction to a large degree, if you know how to bid.

To have 3 on and 4 off, the pairings need to have high credit value--in PBS or line bidding. Your stage lengths are about 75 minutes, average. How many legs do you need to fly to get 6 to 7 hours a day to produce 3 day pairings with 18-20 hours?

And junior line holders end up on reserve if guys below them have vacation or training.

Yes. This is not line bidding. It is PBS. In PBS, you are bidding individual pairings to try and achieve a target, not the threshold. If you have pre-assigned credit, then you have a head start, generally. Everyone gets vacation throughout the year. In PBS, any trip awarded to a pilot was available to any pilot senior to that pilot, unless the more senior pilot was restricted by too much block in 7 days, a conflict with a pre-assigned, or a number of other reasons. Is this any different than when you pick up open time?

 

[Speedtape]

Sorry, I was talking about the dropped portions of trips conflicting with vacations.

Signed, Mr Ambiguity ,(-;

Why should you get paid for work that you did not do? Do you pay someone to cut your yard if he does not cut your yard?

 

[Speedtape]

Any xjt pilot in the bottom 80% system wide would be crazy to vote yes on a TA with pbs. Why? Pbs honors seniority.
I'm not sure the sure the bottom 80% of ASA PBS users would agree with you. They have good lines, and yes, it honors seniority. Read you contract about seniority--nothing has changed since you were hired. It works the same at any airline in this industry.

It will give the top 20% more control and the bottom less. If giving up control of your schedule to the senior guys is your thing then vote yes on pbs...
The bottom 20% of your pilot group is no different than the bottom 20% at any airline. You can't fix Juniority!

As for the pbs for the secondary bid, we'll see if that's a good thing or not.
You'll love it.

When you go for an interview at your next airline, tell them you will only take the job if they neuter seniority. Good Luck on that BobbaLou!

 

[Nevets]

Sorry, I was talking about the dropped portions of trips conflicting with vacations.

Signed, Mr Ambiguity ,(-;

Now I really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[wms]

Why should you get paid for work that you did not do? Do you pay someone to cut your yard if he does not cut your yard?

I'm not saying what you should or shouldn't get paid for. I'm saying it's a benefit the erj pilots will lose with PBS.

By the way, if you can negotiate getting paid for work you didn't do, good on you. Life is what you negotiate.

 

[wms]

Many? Maybe a few. I worked in IAD. After 3 months, many liked it! Your diatribe has many broadbrushed generalizations that simply are not true. Face your Fears! Everything will be OK. And, learn to bid!

I bid just fine. I do good with what we have to work with, and get what I expect or better. But it used to be way better. With the current flying, threshold and trip value, you can't do a three-on, four-off, which I should be senior enough to do. I bid top ten at IAD and my QOL has gone down with PBS, and my pay is 3% less in '12 than in '11. You also can't bid a 75 hour line with more days off when the company sets the threshold higher, which is what I need to do to be productive for my department, which affects pay as well.

Did you work at IAD or were you actually based there? There is a difference between living it and just visiting. My guess is you're ATL-based and passed through IAD.

After looking at expressjet's line bidding it is much better than what we have, and I'm sharing that with them.

 

[IBNAV8R]

If EVERYBODY at ASA with scheduled reduced rest overnights made the flight late enough to delay the flights the next morning they would go away GUARANTEED!!

Instead you guys come on here like little whiney beeches and cry about 8 hour overnights. I for one have NEVER successfully done a scheduled RR overnight. I ALWAYS have to get my duty in time adjusted. Just ground the airplane for an hours worth of MTC.

If we ALL did this every time we had a RR overnight, THEY WOULD GO AWAY!!

Then you get an 18-hour overnight in PAH and get home 10 hours later for exactly the same pay.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Then you get an 18-hour overnight in PAH and get home 10 hours later for exactly the same pay.

Exactly...Be careful what you wish for...

 

[wms]

As I mentioned in my first post, PBS is a good system with good features, but the company has been allowed to misuse it. I would be happy with either system if we had control AND the bottom of the window stayed at 75 hours.

Being in negotiations, the problem is the company knows how much the CRJ guys love PBS. My fear, and the company's bet, is the pilots are willing to give up work rules and quality of life to keep it.

So the BIG question is this:
Are you willing to give up vacation low to keep PBS? That's what the company wants. The MEC has been giving us this same rhetoric, that we'll have to give up vacation low to keep PBS.

 

[ace6453]

So the BIG question is this:
Are you willing to give up vacation low to keep PBS? That's what the company wants. The MEC has been giving us this same rhetoric, that we'll have to give up vacation low to keep PBS.

Haven't heard that one yet, but give up vacation low to keep PBS? The choices aren't going to be keep PBS w/o vacation low or go back to our line bidding. With the XJT guys in the picture it is going to be between PBS and their line bidding. If the union negotiates something that sucks then we can vote it down and keep status quo.

 

[goahead]

Then you get an 18-hour overnight in PAH and get home 10 hours later for exactly the same pay.

Agree you can rest when you're home with your family in your bed!

 

[dojetdriver]

Why should you get paid for work that you did not do? Do you pay someone to cut your yard if he does not cut your yard?

That's an excellent point!!!!

You should petition the JNC to get rid off all cancellation pay, leg by leg/block or better, your nap pay credit, etc since you are of this opinion.

 

[Clutch]

That's an excellent point!!!!

You should petition the JNC to get rid off all cancellation pay, leg by leg/block or better, your nap pay credit, etc since you are of this opinion.

He's also a standards instructor who gets paid 6 hours to come in and jumpseat a short round trip out of IAD for a line check... Serious hypocrite.

 

[wms]

He's also a standards instructor who gets paid 6 hours to come in and jumpseat a short round trip out of IAD for a line check... Serious hypocrite.

He's addressing speedtape who is not a standards pilot as far as I know. And again, life is what you negotiate and vote for.

BTW, the standards pilots also risk their certificates doing new-hire oe for an extra $100 a day, give up days off doing those line checks that have to be done, sometimes going below ten days off/month, and took a pay cut in contract '07.

PS I didn't negotiate contract '07 and I voted no.

 

[goahead]

He's addressing speedtape who is not a standards pilot as far as I know. And again, life is what you negotiate and vote for.

BTW, the standards pilots also risk their certificates doing new-hire oe for an extra $100 a day, give up days off doing those line checks that have to be done, sometimes going below ten days off/month, and took a pay cut in contract '07.

PS I didn't negotiate contract '07 and I voted no.

But the sim guys sure made out like kings in 07, that is till the majority went back to the line recently

 

[ASA_Aviator]

If EVERYBODY at ASA with scheduled reduced rest overnights made the flight late enough to delay the flights the next morning they would go away GUARANTEED!!

Instead you guys come on here like little whiney beeches and cry about 8 hour overnights. I for one have NEVER successfully done a scheduled RR overnight. I ALWAYS have to get my duty in time adjusted. Just ground the airplane for an hours worth of MTC.

If we ALL did this every time we had a RR overnight, THEY WOULD GO AWAY!!

Pick your poison. RR overnights or low value trips.

ALPA builds the pairings for Gods sake.

 

[ace6453]

ALPA builds the pairings for Gods sake.

The company builds them according to the company and ALPA.