PBS is coming to Express Jet

[Speedtape]

Read between the lines in one of the latest Com's. Do you want to know more? You should! The camel is about to stick his nose in the tent!

 

[zawillif]

I support it 100%. PBS gives a substantial increase in building flexibility. That's not to say it's perfect--we need better controls over pairing construction. If we can get that I say leave PBS as is.

 

[wms]

2500 erj pilots say PBS is history. Many IAD pilots are fed up with PBS and are lobbying against it with the erj pilots in the crew rooms and on overnights. There are "no PBS" notes in their cockpits and nopbs.com. A five minute ride on the hotel van with erj pilots saying they're open to it means nothing, they're just avoiding confrontation. The fact is they're altogether opposed to it.

PBS is a good system with good features, but the company is misusing it. PBS will be gone, and I'm glad.

PBS is the only thing I have ever voted "yes" for and I regret it. I'm voting no on any TA with PBS in it and encouraging the erj pilots to do the same.

Even our own mec, ie, NT is taking sides with the company saying vacation low will be eliminated and many of the QOL features will be lost.

I've seen Expressjet's line bidding and it blows what we have away.

 

[wms]

We need more than control of pairing construction. With the company having control of the threshold you can't bid guarantee, or a 3 on - 4 off schedule.

And junior line holders end up on reserve if guys below them have vacation or training.

 

[Bushhatesyou]

Read between the lines in one of the latest Com's. Do you want to know more? You should! The camel is about to stick his nose in

Funny

 

[cybourg10]

The XJT ERJ side will have PBS soon next year for phase two bidding instead of hand built lines, phase 1 will still be hard lines with the line improvement window. We'll see what our relief line guys say about it here by summer but it is basically a PBS test run.

 

[Fishpaw]

Any xjt pilot in the bottom 80% system wide would be crazy to vote yes on a TA with pbs. Why? Pbs honors seniority. It will give the top 20% more control and the bottom less. If giving up control of your schedule to the senior guys is your thing then vote yes on pbs... As for the pbs for the secondary bid, we'll see if that's a good thing or not.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Watch out...the company may give you line bidding back, but expect it to not resemble anything you have now. They are out for blood, and concessions one way or another.

 

[crazy8]

Watch out...the company may give you line bidding back, but expect it to not resemble anything you have now. They are out for blood, and concessions one way or another.

Ha...I wish the company good luck with that. I have no problem sticking with the current XJT contract. No legacy XJT pilots will have a subpar contract shoved down our throats. Sorry.

 

[MoreDaysOff]

Legacy XJet? Sounds a little self-important don't you think?

 

[crazy8]

Legacy XJet? Sounds a little self-important don't you think?

Wow, an SKW clown calling me self important. Yeah, not so much. That is how it is being referred to within the combined company. Legacy XJT, Legacy ASA.

I know you guys are eager for us to sign a new contract so you can reap your unearned reward. Unfortunately, it's gonna be a while.

 

[Nevets]

Read between the lines in one of the latest Com's. Do you want to know more? You should! The camel is about to stick his nose in the tent!

We got an email from the MEC about this about five days ago and they also had an all pilot conference call in which they explained the why, what, when, and how of this PBS. Yes, it's definitely the camels nose under the tent.

Here is my editorial on this. I think it's BRILLIANT in the part of the XJT MEC. The company wants to reduce open time that's left over after the SLIW. Also, they can use the old AdOpt VTO software that it's already spent to create the relief lines (they can use any software they want) in order to minimize open time. Our scheduling committee has said that VTO would not be good for the pilots. Also, the committee has said that if the MEC decides to pursue PBS in the joint contract, FlightLine would not be good for our pilots but there is only ONE software provider they would recommend. Also, the other MEC has been adamant about sticking to Flightline regardless of anything telling the opposition that they were bought by ASA, XJT was going BK, and they must get on board. The XJT MEC proposed that for the joint contract we go with the XJT line bidding and work rules and use this one acceptable PBS software for relief and reserve lines. The other MEC scoffed at the idea and stuck to their Flightline only guns. So now the XJT MEC comes up with a way to satisfy the company's desire to reduce open time with this nifty PBS software and in the meantime persuade the company that this is the system to go with if we do decide to have PBS in the joint contract and showing them exactly how our line bidding and work rules with this PBS software for relief/reserve lines would be better for everyone rather than either of the two current bidding systems.

By the way, if it is the software I think it is, it is pretty novel way of bidding. Even though we would lose some advantages to our current line bidding system and work rules, this would definitely be the type of PBS software we should use if we decide to do that in the joint contract.

This will definitely change some people's feelings on PBS.

 

[Bushhatesyou]

We got an email from the MEC about this about five days ago and they also had an all pilot conference call in which they explained the why, what, when, and how of this PBS. Yes, it's definitely the camels nose under the tent.

Here is my editorial on this. I think it's BRILLIANT in the part of the XJT MEC. The company wants to reduce open time that's left over after the SLIW. Also, they can use the old AdOpt VTO software that it's already spent to create the relief lines (they can use any software they want) in order to minimize open time. Our scheduling committee has said that VTO would not be good for the pilots. Also, the committee has said that if the MEC decides to pursue PBS in the joint contract, FlightLine would not be good for our pilots but there is only ONE software provider they would recommend. Also, the other MEC has been adamant about sticking to Flightline regardless of anything telling the opposition that they were bought by ASA, XJT was going BK, and they must get on board. The XJT MEC proposed that for the joint contract we go with the XJT line bidding and work rules and use this one acceptable PBS software for relief and reserve lines. The other MEC scoffed at the idea and stuck to their Flightline only guns. So now the XJT MEC comes up with a way to satisfy the company's desire to reduce open time with this nifty PBS software and in the meantime persuade the company that this is the system to go with if we do decide to have PBS in the joint contract and showing them exactly how our line bidding and work rules with this PBS software for relief/reserve lines would be better for everyone rather than either of the two current bidding systems.

By the way, if it is the software I think it is, it is pretty novel way of bidding. Even though we would lose some advantages to our current line bidding system and work rules, this would definitely be the type of PBS software we should use if we decide to do that in the joint contract.

This will definitely change some people's feelings on PBS.

Bingo!!!

 

[ASApuppy]

Any xjt pilot in the bottom 80% system wide would be crazy to vote yes on a TA with pbs. Why? Pbs honors seniority. It will give the top 20% more control and the bottom less. If giving up control of your schedule to the senior guys is your thing then vote yes on pbs... As for the pbs for the secondary bid, we'll see if that's a good thing or not.

11 year, about 62% CRJ Capt here. I do admit to not knowing much of Xjet's "schedule enhancement" stuff, but I can say that I am much happier with PBS than with our old line bidding. One can not expect to go from working 4 days over the weekend to 3 day weekends off with PBS. I worked all weekends with line bidding. With PBS, I can lump trips together and have a weekend off or many partial weekends. I can even schedule a week off without taking vacation. It is an absolute winner in how to bid. Now, its not perfect and here are some ideas to fix it.

1. we need to start the whole process sooner each month. Sucks waiting.

2. we need to be able to swap more after award before month starts. Perhaps with methods used by xjet's old system.

3. we need staffing ratios to the flying.

4. we need control of the pairing construction.
Base it on pilot surveys. Different folks what different stuff, so build a blend.

Thats a good starter for me. We don't need to be the each others enemy nor the company's. I like flying just like you. Being junior is just that. Better schedules to those who have endured the most.

 

[crazy8]

11 year, about 62% CRJ Capt here. I do admit to not knowing much of Xjet's "schedule enhancement" stuff, but I can say that I am much happier with PBS than with our old line bidding. One can not expect to go from working 4 days over the weekend to 3 day weekends off with PBS. I worked all weekends with line bidding. With PBS, I can lump trips together and have a weekend off or many partial weekends. I can even schedule a week off without taking vacation.

You would be able to do all of that using our line bidding and initial line improvement window. You could then further tweak your line in the secondary window.

With our system, once you learn how to use it, you could have a 12 day off line working most weekends and turn it into a 17 day off line with all weekends off. Trust me, I've done it.

 

[goahead]

We got an email from the MEC about this about five days ago and they also had an all pilot conference call in which they explained the why, what, when, and how of this PBS. Yes, it's definitely the camels nose under the tent.

Here is my editorial on this. I think it's BRILLIANT in the part of the XJT MEC. The company wants to reduce open time that's left over after the SLIW. Also, they can use the old AdOpt VTO software that it's already spent to create the relief lines (they can use any software they want) in order to minimize open time. Our scheduling committee has said that VTO would not be good for the pilots. Also, the committee has said that if the MEC decides to pursue PBS in the joint contract, FlightLine would not be good for our pilots but there is only ONE software provider they would recommend. Also, the other MEC has been adamant about sticking to Flightline regardless of anything telling the opposition that they were bought by ASA, XJT was going BK, and they must get on board. The XJT MEC proposed that for the joint contract we go with the XJT line bidding and work rules and use this one acceptable PBS software for relief and reserve lines. The other MEC scoffed at the idea and stuck to their Flightline only guns. So now the XJT MEC comes up with a way to satisfy the company's desire to reduce open time with this nifty PBS software and in the meantime persuade the company that this is the system to go with if we do decide to have PBS in the joint contract and showing them exactly how our line bidding and work rules with this PBS software for relief/reserve lines would be better for everyone rather than either of the two current bidding systems.

By the way, if it is the software I think it is, it is pretty novel way of bidding. Even though we would lose some advantages to our current line bidding system and work rules, this would definitely be the type of PBS software we should use if we decide to do that in the joint contract.

This will definitely change some people's feelings on PBS.

Not disputing your claims but I asked our CA rep in Atlanta last week about the software we used to make the CRJ-200 Dec lines, which is what you guys use, and he said the company likes it and so do they and to look for it to be used in the future. So I hope our neg guys aren't sticking to flightline now that yours has been proven to allow more days off and less TAFB. It makes you work your A__ off but as long as it gives us more off time I'm all for it!!

I love PBS personally, it's all a matter of opinion and knowledge of the system, I've had better lines with it every month since using it. I think that a mix and match between our current systems is the right fit going forward, as it should be! Good post

 

[Nevets]

Not disputing your claims but I asked our CA rep in Atlanta last week about the software we used to make the CRJ-200 Dec lines, which is what you guys use, and he said the company likes it and so do they and to look for it to be used in the future. So I hope our neg guys aren't sticking to flightline now that yours has been proven to allow more days off and less TAFB. It makes you work your A__ off but as long as it gives us more off time I'm all for it!!

I love PBS personally, it's all a matter of opinion and knowledge of the system, I've had better lines with it every month since using it. I think that a mix and match between our current systems is the right fit going forward, as it should be! Good post

That's the pairing generator you are talking about. Flightline and this other PBS software we are going to use for relief/reserve lines are totally different from each other and from a pairing generator.

 

[dojetdriver]

Not disputing your claims but I asked our CA rep in Atlanta last week about the software we used to make the CRJ-200 Dec lines, which is what you guys use, and he said the company likes it and so do they and to look for it to be used in the future.

That's the pairing generator you are talking about. Flightline and this other PBS software we are going to use for relief/reserve lines are totally different from each other and from a pairing generator.

As Nevets said, it was ONLY the pairing generator that was used for December. It was STILL the ASA PBS software that built the awarded lines. What it did was build pairings that were way more productive that ASA pairing generator was doing.

Big big difference.

 

[Clutch]

Nerds

I wish I could graph the "time contributed to bitching on FI" against the "difference actually made toward said bitched about subject"........... somewhere around zero, maybe?

 

[CFIT]

Just realize that if PBS is adopted that the benefit of your present vacation setup is gone. Where you now have in language that if your vaca touches a trip it gets paid, well, that's over. With PBS your ability to collude a trip with your vaca can't happen, gigantic huge benefit to the company.

Think about all the things you will give up?

And if you do go the way of PBS, please don't go with AOS, lots of variables the company can manipulate that can't be controlled because there is not one single person that really understands the program!

 

[centralpilot]

Just realize that if PBS is adopted that the benefit of your present vacation setup is gone. Where you now have in language that if your vaca touches a trip it gets paid, well, that's over. With PBS your ability to collude a trip with your vaca can't happen, gigantic huge benefit to the company.

That depends on your work rules. I've been getting 22+ days off in a row (not counting days in next/previous month)with one week of vacation, typically only working 6 or 7 total days in the month. Strangely the company doesn't see this as a gigantic huge benefit; quite the opposite in fact. I'm not saying that is better than what XJT has, but it is possible to achieve vacation extension without "trip touching" if you negotiate the right terms.

 

[Trcb777]

The current vacation (low) setup with PBS is fantastic and has nothing to do with trips touching vacation like it was with line bidding. Its all based on credit. Once you reach the required credit amount for the month, the award is complete. 65(vacation low)-28(max vacation)=37. So once 37 hrs is reached your done, if you know how to bid and want max days off. Can be even less with carry over credit from the month before. You can also can get more days off with the next month bid. I got 22 days off for vacation in July and another 6 days in a row off in Aug. for a total of 28 in a row.

PBS is more like bidding week to week instead of an entire month which give you a great deal of options. A 3 day here, a 2 day there....etc...

 

[goahead]

As Nevets said, it was ONLY the pairing generator that was used for December. It was STILL the ASA PBS software that built the awarded lines. What it did was build pairings that were way more productive that ASA pairing generator was doing.

Big big difference.

Yeah that's what I was trying to imply that the pairings were much better thanks to their software and we all know better pairings make much better lines/PBS awards.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

2500 erj pilots say PBS is history. Many IAD pilots are fed up with PBS and are lobbying against it with the erj pilots in the crew rooms and on overnights. There are "no PBS" notes in their cockpits and nopbs.com. A five minute ride on the hotel van with erj pilots saying they're open to it means nothing, they're just avoiding confrontation. The fact is they're altogether opposed to it.

PBS is a good system with good features, but the company is misusing it. PBS will be gone, and I'm glad.

PBS is the only thing I have ever voted "yes" for and I regret it. I'm voting no on any TA with PBS in it and encouraging the erj pilots to do the same.

Even our own mec, ie, NT is taking sides with the company saying vacation low will be eliminated and many of the QOL features will be lost.

I've seen Expressjet's line bidding and it blows what we have away.

What about trip construction? Do you think that trip construction language and PBS are synonymous? I personally feel that the PBS system works well, but we gave them a blank piece of paper when it came to actually constructing the trips.

 

[79%N1]

Trip construction is better? Says who? All I'm doing are 2 reduced rest overnights out of 3 each week, usually preceded by or following six leg days......enough of that!

 

[Medeco]

not a fan of the way the company is allowing the pairings to be made. 2 reduced overnights on a 4day trip is not cool.

For many reasons.

 

[IFLYASA]

I voted "No" on PBS. I have always loved my line bidding. I could never go back to line bidding now. PBS is so much more flexible. Think of it as bidding individual pairings on whatever days you want, as oppose to monthly lines. It's so much better. .

 

[Freebrd]

Efficient pairings but the Co isn't leaving much buffer room if you're running late which could cause the next morning's departure to be late or cancelled, or even take you off the overnight portion so it does run on time.

 

[dojetdriver]

I voted "No" on PBS. I have always loved my line bidding. I could never go back to our previous line bidding system now. However, I have no idea how the XJT line bid system works, so I assume ALL line bid systems are the same

Fixed it for you.

What so, so many of the people that do ZERO research into the XJT line bid system fail to understand is this;

For the junior pilot at ASA that doesn't get his preferences awarded or gets unstacked, he has little, if any recourse to improve his line.

The Junior pilot at XJT that doesn't get the trips/days off he wanted CAN. Via ILIW, SLIW, and bad day/worse day trade.

 

[wms]

What the erj guys will lose is dropping trips and still getting paid the original line value whereas we just get guarantee.