Paying for 1st officer training?!?

[banned username 2]

Re: Re: Re: More details needed...

If you take the tried and true route of instructing, banner towing, traffic watch, glider towing, and then some 135 positions no one will doubt your integrity.....ever. And you might even know a little bit about flying by the time you show up in an airliner cockpit.

Well said.....

 

[Sam Adams]

PFT

Do not by any means Pay for your training! There are many ways to get quaility flight time even during this post 9/11 downturn.You just have to be very motivated and get out there and sell yourself. 1000 doors will be slamed in your face but there is that one that will be open.And that is all it takes, save that cash and buy some real estate with it. What ever you do DON"T GIVE UP!!

 

[MetroSheriff]

At many of the companies I would want to work for, it says they require a four-year degree. Well gosh darn I must be one of those PFT jag-offs, since I've dropped near $15,000 for that requirement.

It's also a prerequisite to get a CFI certificate to flight instruct here. I guess the $20,000 I spent in this university flight program for all my ratings up to and including my CFI makes me a PFTer, again.

I agree that programs where you must pay to fly right seat are very detrimental to this profession. However, for companies that require you obtain some particular rating or type, I can't complain about that. Take a look at Climbto350.com. How many of those companies require a type in something and X amount of time to be considered? I see all the time "current and typed in CL-604" or something. Wow, lots of PFT corporate/charter companies out there.

Please, please spare us the rhetoric. We all know what's PFT and what isn't.

 

[publisher]

PFT

We have had this discussion before but as far as I can tell, only Gulfstream qualifies as a PFT situation. Airnet and these other programs are single pilot ops or are structured where they are not PFT/

 

[jobear]

Frontier Flying Service is offering a similar program. I don't agree with it but it does happen.
I don't think its that bad flying around the dogpatch flight instructing, not that I would wan't to do that again but it is a great learning oppurtunity.(sp)

Jobear

 

[banned username 2]

Re: PFT

We have had this discussion before but as far as I can tell, only Gulfstream qualifies as a PFT situation. Airnet and these other programs are single pilot ops or are structured where they are not PFT/

Well if these "other" operations are "Single-Pilot" ops, then how can you even legally log the SIC time? Either you are a required crew member or you are not... If you are required then it is PFT, if you are not required then you can't log it....

Sounds like a lose/lose situation either way....

Think about it....

 

[publisher]

Airnet

Falcon.

As example look at the Airnet program. The FAA recognizes that their SIC program is a required crewmember for logging purpose. You can search this board for a more detailed explanation a few months ago.

I reiterate, in the case of Gulfstream a pay for training situation exists that would require another pilot. While it may be misnomer that the pilot you would be paying is little different than the pilot paying, the fact is this is pay for training.

While no one seems to like it, the fact is that people come out of all these programs and move into the pilot ranks. People will keep doing it until it is shown that they do not advance as a result of it.

 

[JOPILOT]

TO BRAD:::

Yada, yada , yada...I suggest to wait and do not pay
for SIC time. Find some way to get cfi time, it will be like
flying for free, (small wages and no charge for the hours
in your log-just the certification). Ameriflight used to hire
folks with your qualifications for part 135vfr ops...and now
you want to pay $52/hour...get a cfi ticket and live off the
difference while you build time.

I looked at doing the same thing when I had same
amount of tt. I decided to get my cfi ticket, one
of the major reasons was the PFT time was not PIC,
so it would not count towards the majors as turbine
time and I would also have been responsible
to know the systems of a turbine aircraft inside and
out! Which at an interview could be a bad thing
-- compared to say a Seneca which makes for a
lot easier questions on one of the most stressful
days ever! Either way you sound motivated and
Good Luck, jp

 

[tredding@swa]

PFT, schmeeFT

Guys,

What I see here is how you choose to pay yer "dues"....

As a former line boy, now pro-pilot and current SWA Poolie... remember this, please;

We who are passionate about what we do will continue to be taken advantage of by owners of companies that understand that we will "fly 4 food".

IF you choose to (please excuse me) "whore" yourself out and choose to NOT have a constant upward motion in your career - it is a path that you must live with.

There are not many careers that have such a plethora of roads that eventually lead to the same place.... all require commitment and sacrifice. PLEASE do yourself and your fellow aspiring aviators a favor, ALWAYS get paid for flying the equipment!!!! It is figured in all D.O.C.s for operating an airplane... don't let ANY operator off the hook for paying a pilot to perform what he/she has trained to do, EVER!!!

Thanks for hearing my opinion..... I have hired many pilots, NONE were ever asked to fly for free.... or to pay for it either!

Good Luck in your career development. No job is more fun, or more satisfying than being a professional pilot. K

 

[jimbo]

Ditto tredding....
Please don't go that route. There are plenty of flying jobs out there but you have to work at it. Get your CFI, it's alot less than 12K that you're essentially giving Ameriflt. I was in your position 4 years ago and considered this route (for about 2 minutes). The secret is is keep plugging away at it. I know one guy that went that route and to me determined a certain "character". He chose the "low Road"and is now not flying. He was'nt willing to go the extra mile and thus has given up. Not to say this is the case in every situation but you see what I mean.
Another point, being a former night freight guy I use to see Ameriflight all the time at CVG. They will leave you at whereever you are if there's a W/B problem. Ameriflight is a good company with a good rep in the frt industry but this is one portion of that I don't agree. Get your 1200 hours (135 mins) and then apply. You'll fly the smaller stuff but it will lead to the 1900's and metro's. And you won't spend a dime!
Last but not least there are some companys that will not recognize the SIC time. Continental express is one. I had one friend that used his questionable SIC (at least that's what C.E. said but the same as what you will have) and they ended the interview as soon as they found out.
Just my two cents......take the "high road". You will feel much prouder in the end!

 

[cheezpilot]

Paying SIC jobs

Do not pay for training (which is more specifically defined as paying for flight time that is questionably loggable). Do not pay for a job that a company should be paying you to do (like Gulfstream). I do know of a few SIC positions that they pay you for because the FAA requires another crew member. Last time I heard Superior Aviation out of Lansing, MI hired low timers with 1000hrs, CFII, and almost no multi to fly SIC in freight metro III's. They pay like 1000 buck a month. Don't quote me on this but a friend of mine used to do the hiring. So why would you pay do do the same job at Ameriflight or some other places. SIC time in anything that does not require a type and the operation is single pilot freight is useless time and money wasted.