Pay for Time or Training?

[The_Russian]

The whole time I thought this was a new thread.

mcjohn,

Get a life. People are going to stop giving you advice if you do stuff like this. I realize you are new, but these guys are ruthless because they can't see your face.

Russian

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI after PFT

CFI is nice thing to fall back on. I wouldn't be comfortable doing one of the PFT programs with out having a little CFI experience to fall back on in case they took all my money and kicked me to the street.

. . . . which is what I've been saying. How reliable are P-F-T's representations that a regional will hire you immediately after flying off your P-F-T hours? Probably, at best, unreliable. Meaning, you'll wind up earning your CFI anyway to build time to standard regional minimums. And, with time, that 121 SIC "time" you purchased will go stale and will be meaningless. Moreover, you will have to answer questions at the interview about that "time," though with it and subsequent non-121 time in your logbook you will be pegged as a P-F-Ter from the outset.

Wouldn't it be better to work steadily right out of initial Commercial training and build enough time to qualify for every job instead of trying to pull a risky and expensive end-run? No one says it has to be instructing, though, as a practical matter, instructing is the most easily obtained entry-level flying job.

(I'm sure these comments will also fall on deaf ears/blind eyes with this particular poster, who continues to beg for validation to P-F-T. But, they still needed to be written for the benefit of those who might listen.)

Get a life. People are going to stop giving you advice if you do stuff like this. I realize you are new, but these guys are ruthless because they can't see your face.

I'd give the same opinions and advice, in person or on the board.

 

[Goose Egg]

Heck, there are some airlines where I wouldn't allow them them to pay me for my services. PFT is something that I don't need for success.

A few years back I had a guy lecture me about how good PFT was. He had participated in PFT, and I should have asked him (but didn't) if PFT was so good, what was he doing there lecturing me, a lowly commercial student, when he should be off flying for an airline.

Goose

 

[MTpilot]

To answer your question.

I am an MEI. So, Obviously I am a little biased, but I think time as an instructor is more valuable to your flying carreer than a PFT or whatever you want to call it program,it is probably more valuable in the eyes of your future employers as well. Alpine Air comes through here, (MSO) and I don't have any quarrel with those guys. But, riding along hauling boxes all night will famialarize you with that companys policies and procedures. As far as shooting approaches down to minimums that's pretty rare, emergencies rare also. Being an instructor, most of your flying time is practicing emergencies and running on one engine and recovering some of your students worst mistakes. I think instructing is more likely to improve your overall flying skills, whereas theses programs just improve your lingo. Of course that is just my opinion and I am but a humble instructor. Best of Luck, Hope this is closer to the type of answer you were looking for.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T v. Instructing

I am an MEI. So, Obviously I am a little biased, but I think time as an instructor is more valuable to your flying carreer than a PFT or whatever you want to call it program,it is probably more valuable in the eyes of your future employers as well. Alpine Air comes through here, (MSO) and I don't have any quarrel with those guys. But, riding along hauling boxes all night will famialarize you with that companys policies and procedures. As far as shooting approaches down to minimums that's pretty rare, emergencies rare also. Being an instructor, most of your flying time is practicing emergencies and running on one engine and recovering some of your students worst mistakes. I think instructing is more likely to improve your overall flying skills, whereas theses programs just improve your lingo. Of course that is just my opinion and I am but a humble instructor. Best of Luck, Hope this is closer to the type of answer you were looking for.

Good post. Thank you.

 

[utahpilot]

wow, thread resurrected!


as an addendum to my original thread, my friend who did the Alpine Air FO program is now a newly upgraded captain on the RJ for SkyWest. I think he'd tell you his time at Alpine was worth it. you can argue all this forever. to add perspective, myself and many others who instructed together at this same school and didn't go the Alpine route years ago are now at SkyWest, XJet, etc.

to each his own

peace-

 

[hmmurdock]

Paying for time

Greetings..

I paid for time through conair and also airline training academy(now bankrupt), the latter to obtain my current job flying for ASA..I was hired with around 300 hours pre 9-11. I was part of the low time generation of pilots that got hired. Those days are over exept for a few interns that get hired with 500 or so hours. I spent a total of 70,000 or so all inclusive( some cost of living expense as well as it was difficult to work in a 141 school)..Anyway, there is no more of the "work for a regional for a couple of years and then move on"..Those days are over. If you buy time, fine. But once you get hired, you will make 19,000 or so 1st year then around 23 to 25 your 2nd and so on. I have been here almost 4 years and make roughly 35 to 36 or so a year. You will need to be satisfied on FO pay for a good 3 to 6 years before upgrade. This is the reality in todays airline environment. This is why I work a second job, to try and nibble away at this debt. Anyway, not to sound negative, but to try and tell it like it is. Just keep these things in mind when making a decision.

Take care

Rob

 

[bobbysamd]

Paying for time = P-F-T = Pay for job

If you buy time, fine . . . .

Better prepare yourself for a long stay at ASA. Your peers at the next step up, the majors, nationals, turbojets, LCCs, whatever, won't take kindly to your buying a job. As Ricky Ricardo said to Lucy, you will have some 'splainin' to do come interview time.

Anyone can buy a job. The only thing needed is money. No need for ability or qualifications. However, it takes some wherewithal and doing, not to mention qualifications, to be hired for free.

By now, you might have realized that even this job was not worth buying, to-wit, your having to work a second job. Proving once more that no job is worth buying.

Finally, in all fairness to this poster, his Comair attendance was not P-F-T. All Comair promises is training for your ratings. Misleading advertising aside, interviews for instructor jobs and then for Comair Airlines have to be earned.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Like what Bobysamsd said, all time earned doesn't have to be instructing either.

 

[bobbysamd]

Building time v. paying for time

Like what Bobysamsd said, all time earned doesn't have to be instructing either.

Of course. If you can earn legitimate hours right out of training without instructing, more power to you. I say that because legitimate time-building opportunities for 250-hour pilots are few and far between, which makes instructing the most likely and easiest-to-obtain entry-level job. P-F-T, paying-for-time and paying-for-training are not legitimate time-building opportunities. Once more, anyone with bucks can buy hours, and will be viewed as such accordingly.

 

[semperfido]

1. Do whatever it takes to get you where you want to go.

2. Be aggressive when it comes to your career.

3. Take no prisoners.

4. Don't worry too much about what others think.

5. Stay focused.

 

[Jmajoris]

whore!

You're a disgrace.

 

[bobbysamd]

Pft

1. Do whatever it takes to get you where you want to go.

2. Be aggressive when it comes to your career.

3. Take no prisoners.

4. Don't worry too much about what others think.

5. Stay focused.

(emphasis added)

Bad advice. "Others" will comprise your pilot interview board and will have likely earned their jobs. They will let you know what they think of your "aggressive" "career" "building" by way of blackball.

You have been warned.

 

[hmmurdock]

Better prepare yourself for a long stay at ASA. Your peers at the next step up, the majors, nationals, turbojets, LCCs, whatever, won't take kindly to your buying a job. As Ricky Ricardo said to Lucy, you will have some 'splainin' to do come interview time.

Anyone can buy a job. The only thing needed is money. No need for ability or qualifications. However, it takes some wherewithal and doing, not to mention qualifications, to be hired for free.

By now, you might have realized that even this job was not worth buying, to-wit, your having to work a second job. Proving once more that no job is worth buying.


Sad but true!!...When fantasy met reality for me, I would have been better off in my prior career, at least there I had a pension!!

Rob

 

[Ty Webb]

I hear the Russian got the Gulfstream PFT $$$ through P-P-F-T

Porn
Paid
For
Training

 

[The_Russian]

Ty,

honey where have you been? You were supposed to be home hours ago. Now fix that weed-whacker and get out in the lawn and work.

Love,

Becky

 

[aviatrix]

I also own a bar

Wow.......Hate PFT and own a bar?!?!?! That's A-OK in my book!!!!

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

honey where have you been? You were supposed to be home hours ago. Now fix that weed-whacker and get out in the lawn and work.

Love,

Becky

I'm not much for weed-whacking, but I have trimmed a few unruly bushes .

 

[mcjohn]

After starting some of these debates I have learned a lot. I was dead set on PFT but it is too much freakin money! I got my commercials at sheble's and my CFI at www.amfly.com all for under 10 grand including hotels and travel expense. I go to my first CFI interview on Sunday and have been asked to teach Private Pilot ground school at a local community college.

 

[bobbysamd]

Light seen

After starting some of these debates I have learned a lot. I was dead set on PFT but it is too much freakin money! I got my commercials at sheble's and my CFI at www.amfly.com all for under 10 grand including hotels and travel expense. I go to my first CFI interview on Sunday and have been asked to teach Private Pilot ground school at a local community college.

Unless you're pulling an April Fool's joke on us, glad to know that you have seen the light.

See?? Your CFI tickets are already opening doors. With a little more luck, you will soon be building legitimate experience that will land you a legitimate regional job. E.g., Xjet's mins, which are something like 700 total-200 or less of multi.

P-F-T is not a matter of money; it's a matter of doing the right thing.

Good luck with your interview

 

[mcjohn]

Nope! That was March 31st. I doubt I'll ever hate PFTers like some do on this forum especially if the PFTer has CFI experience. Some people are just gonna do what they have to do if luck hasn't come their way most likely knowing that it's an unwise gamble.
I want to see how far I can get doing it the affordable hard way! That way I'll never feel like a took an easy way out and can say "I least I tried." The area where I live is probably one of the worst areas to climb the ranks into pro aviation so some of my hope may be wishful thinking. We'll see.

 

[bobbysamd]

I want to see how far I can get doing it the affordable hard way! That way I'll never feel like a took an easy way out and can say "I least I tried." The area where I live is probably one of the worst areas to climb the ranks into pro aviation so some of my hope may be wishful thinking. We'll see.

If you're the least bit enterprising and are willing to work hard, you might surprise yourself at how far you'll go . . . . and after you go that distance and encounter P-F-Ters, you'll understand why P-F-T is so loathed . . . . not to mention how you are not that far away from mins at some commuters.

 

[UnAnswerd]

Where did this come from??? The last post was in April....

 

[dseagrav]

Other places, we call them the Forum Archaeologists.
They're usually banned after resurrecting long-dead posts for no good reason.

 

[pilotmiketx]

From someone inexperienced I can definitely say that Blah blah blah... stuck yoke....blah blah blah...expect to be mistreated.
RT

I bet you put every bit of that 5 minute pattern in your logbook at .5 SIC jet. And you'd probably fly with that jackass again in a minute. That would be the difference between a whore and someone who has a little self respect.

 

[John2375]

Let me place this ladder here for all of you mo-fo's to get off your high horse

 

[mcjohn]

Looordy! Where'd this thread come from?! Interesting that I just found it today after being off FI for a week or so. Funny to see my last post there. Well, I never PFT'd obviously and worked as a CFI for a little over a year and only gained 210 hours of dual given from it (part-time.) I just arrived at the Clarion at MKE for a an ACC interview in the morning. Now if I can just pass the sim check and the written my 520tt and 12 multi will have taken me a long way! DON"T PFT FOLKS!! It's not necessary. Shame on companies that expect to be paid for labor. I don't care what the industry demands or what it takes to get ahead. All you're doing when you PFT is buying a CEO, owner, or top manager a new car or something. If I don't get this job then I'm back to my trailer at the beach to tow some more banners and I'll head home in fall with the part 135 mins and enough tailwheel time to transition into some very interesting lines of work if I want. Again, DON'T PFT. If people would realize this it may begin to restore the pay that pilots are due because pilot demand will go up. Think about it.

 

[Way2Broke]

I noted the following from their webpage. I wonder if they know that it is against the contract with the credit card companies to charge a fee for using a credit card instead of cash. If someone were to report this to the CC vendors it would easily get their credit card rights suspended for a while.


Payments
$500.00 Class reservation fee - due with application.
Balance due upon arrival for training. Payment will be made by Certified Check, Money Order, Credit Card (Please note there will be a processing fee for Credit Cards).​

 

[minitour]

I noted the following from their webpage. I wonder if they know that it is against the contract with the credit card companies to charge a fee for using a credit card instead of cash. If someone were to report this to the CC vendors it would easily get their credit card rights suspended for a while.​

I hate when companies do that...makes the honest businesses out there suffer.

-mini

 

[Vref+Factor]

flight instructing is for fags. why don't you wip out that nice fat checkbook and pay for a job like the rest of us, ...... you f**king babies