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Part 135 First Officer Intern Wanted

8inMan

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Posts
119
Total Time
4000+

brokeflyer

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Posts
2,374
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1501
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Housing[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intern is responsible for own housing at both Milwaukee and out-stations. A crew house is available at no charge in Milwaukee during training.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cost[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Training & Check Ride is a one-time fee of $3,000.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Flight Experience is purchased in 100-hour blocks. Each block takes approximately 11 weeks to complete. The 1st block is $5,000 ($50 per flight hour), 2nd block is $4,500 ($45 per flight hour), and 3rd block is $4,000 ($40 per flight hour). Additional flight time over 300 is $40/hour. All amounts must be paid in advance.[/FONT]

LMFAO!!

they don't want much do they?

Do they make you pay for the fuel too?
 

WMUchickenhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Posts
197
Total Time
900
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Housing[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intern is responsible for own housing at both Milwaukee and out-stations. A crew house is available at no charge in Milwaukee during training.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cost[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Training & Check Ride is a one-time fee of $3,000.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Flight Experience is purchased in 100-hour blocks. Each block takes approximately 11 weeks to complete. The 1st block is $5,000 ($50 per flight hour), 2nd block is $4,500 ($45 per flight hour), and 3rd block is $4,000 ($40 per flight hour). Additional flight time over 300 is $40/hour. All amounts must be paid in advance.[/FONT]

LMFAO!!

they don't want much do they?

Do they make you pay for the fuel too?

I can't believe that anyone would pay 13,500, + housing for the pleasure of Beech 99 SIC time. Is SIC even a required crew-member? That's not an internship, that's robbery.
 
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8inMan

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Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Posts
119
Total Time
4000+
Before you guys jump all over me, this program is not robbing anyone. If someone has the money to do this and wants to continue building time and experience, why not do it? There aren't many jobs to be had right now, especially for someone with low time. I realize the debate for or against PFT is older than dirt, but the simple truth is that experience is experience whether you pay for it all at once or "pay your dues" over a longer period. I got where I am today the hard way. However, I have former students who now hold better positions than me because they had the financial ability to pay for some experience. You are entitled to your opinion about the program, but nobody is being forced into it.
 

airmonkey

Active member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Posts
37
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1300
And what better place to share our opinion than a pilots forum? You are selling something, we as consumers have the right to inform and be informed. Personally I think there are better ways to invest my $10,000 than flying one hour a day sic time and lugging boxes.
 

340drvr

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2003
Posts
454
Total Time
7000
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Housing[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intern is responsible for own housing at both Milwaukee and out-stations. A crew house is available at no charge in Milwaukee during training.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cost[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Training & Check Ride is a one-time fee of $3,000.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Flight Experience is purchased in 100-hour blocks. Each block takes approximately 11 weeks to complete. The 1st block is $5,000 ($50 per flight hour), 2nd block is $4,500 ($45 per flight hour), and 3rd block is $4,000 ($40 per flight hour). Additional flight time over 300 is $40/hour. All amounts must be paid in advance.[/FONT]

LMFAO!!

they don't want much do they?

Do they make you pay for the fuel too?

Supplies......
Knee pads may be rented for $35/hr, and KY jelly is available from the company store at $75 per tube.
 

time builder

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Posts
648
Total Time
3K
And what better place to share our opinion than a pilots forum? You are selling something, we as consumers have the right to inform and be informed. Personally I think there are better ways to invest my $10,000 than flying one hour a day sic time and lugging boxes.
Is 8inman selling anything? What does he have to gain? At AMF you get a whopping 5 bucks per flight hour to have a guy in your right seat.

I don't know 8inman, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and consider his intentions worthy. Folks get real sensitive about this PFT subject, but get real, no one is losing their job over this. No one is twisting your arm to do this, but if you're considering splitting time to build hours, I think this is an alternative you should consider.
 

wrxpilot

The proud, the few
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Posts
901
Total Time
-
I've got a friend that dispatches for a 135 company (and gets paid for it), but also flys right seat for free in that company's caravans and king airs. He's also a CFI in his spare time. Personally I wouldn't really like that not getting paid deal... But I was also fortunate (I guess?) to get paid pretty decently to sit right seat in a 135 king air when I had <1,000 TT. But I can understand my friend's situation, particularly with the current economy... He even called me to ask me about it, and I said that it's a good experience and probably a good idea to do it. I think it'll lead to better things for him later on.

Paying to sit there though? No way. I think it's demeaning, and if it were me I'd have such a bitter taste in my mouth about it that it would be counter-productive. A worthy employee needs to have a feeling of accomplishment. Flying a plane isn't an amusement park ride, it's a job. It's a pretty cool job most of the time, but during those non-cool times (and we all know there can be plenty of those moments) I think it's vital that we have that mindset of it being a job and therefore worthy of serious study, appropriate mental attitude, discipline, and work ethic. Paying to be there just takes a lot of that away IMO.
 

svcta

"Kids these days"-AAflyer
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Posts
1,767
Total Time
SOLO!
Can anyone actually log SIC time in an airplane that requires only one pilot?

8inman, do your ops specs require an SIC?
 

wrxpilot

The proud, the few
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Posts
901
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-
Can anyone actually log SIC time in an airplane that requires only one pilot?

8inman, do your ops specs require an SIC?

If it's 135 charter, you can log SIC time as long as you've had an SIC checkride from a designated check airman and an oral or written exam. Has nothing to do with op specs, insurance mins, etc. It also doesn't matter if the airplane is certified single pilot or not, as it's the regs that require two pilots not the airplane.

Airnet even had a way of doing it with 135 freight, but I'm not as familiar with how that works out legally.
 

svcta

"Kids these days"-AAflyer
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Posts
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Total Time
SOLO!
Yes, but this is cargo, isn't it? It says "daily scheduled cargo flights" So 135 regs don't require 2 pilots on cargo as far as I remember. And it's a single-pilot type. So if the ops specs don't require it, and the regs don't require it (my understanding), there is no SIC time.

Admittedly I don't remember/know what the passenger carrying requirements are. So I could be wrong about that, but this is clearly cargo.

Either way, it's filthy. As an operator, you don't need the SIC, the airplane's going flying any way. Let a young guy ride along and help with the loading/unloading, filing, etc. He can be helpful and won't cost you a dime. Win/WIn.
 
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wrxpilot

The proud, the few
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Posts
901
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Well, I pretty much agree. But like I said before, Airnet figured out a way to allow SICs to legally log time in the right seat of a Baron, so I know there must be some way to get the FAA to sign off on it. I'm just not that familiar with that side of the regs though.
 

taters

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Jun 30, 2005
Posts
323
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3500
$13500 could buy a good bit of time in a light twin that you could fly all buy your self.
PFT= donating everyone elses wages to a black hole you Piece of $hit!!
 

152hvy

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Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Posts
71
Total Time
what?
I'm not current on this side of the REGS, but my understanding on logging PIC or SIC (Part 135 rules) is that you have to be COMPANY TRAINED, FLIGHT CHECKED and "REQUIRED by FAA Regulations" :rolleyes:
Under Part 91 is a different story, you can't log SIC but you can log some little PIC if the PIC (designated) allows you to be the "sole manipulator of the control"...... how often is a box hauler ever on Part 91 LEG? :D
 

152hvy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Posts
71
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what?
I was in CWA for almost 2 yrs, met a couple of cool Freight Runner dudes...they could sure need some extra pair of hands loading/unloading, especially during those 6 months winter season...:D
 

8inMan

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Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Posts
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4000+
Like I said before, you guys are certainly entitled to your own opinions and I respect that. It is my understanding that the interns are given training and check rides as an SIC and can log SIC time. Our ops don't require an SIC, but that doesn't mean you can't log it. For example, some jets are certified single-pilot as well, but most of the time they are flown with two pilots both logging it. If you spent the same amount of money on buying time in a seminole, you wouldn't get the same type of real world experience that you get flying the line.
 

Donsa320

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Posts
521
Total Time
32,000
Free room

If anyone is considering this operation I can offer a free room and bath About 20 minutes from the airport but a car would be needed.

Retired NWA Capt and I'd enjoy the company.

PM me for contact number.
 

time builder

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Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Posts
648
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3K
Yes, but this is cargo, isn't it? It says "daily scheduled cargo flights" So 135 regs don't require 2 pilots on cargo as far as I remember. And it's a single-pilot type. So if the ops specs don't require it, and the regs don't require it (my understanding), there is no SIC time.

Admittedly I don't remember/know what the passenger carrying requirements are. So I could be wrong about that, but this is clearly cargo.

Either way, it's filthy. As an operator, you don't need the SIC, the airplane's going flying any way. Let a young guy ride along and help with the loading/unloading, filing, etc. He can be helpful and won't cost you a dime. Win/WIn.
For passengers, it's required for a plane with a configuration of 10 or more pax, the BE99 can be configured for 15.

As far as cargo goes, no operator is going to schedule a captain for more than 8 hours flight time (in 24) without a hired and paid FO. The FO is required for a 10 hour day. In this case, having the "intern" FO opens up the opportunity for a captain to accept an extra leg or two that wasn't previously scheduled.

Also, in order to have ops specs for a low visability takeoff (1200 RVR or 1/4 mile) you need an FO.

In either case, it's not enough of an incentive for most 135 operators to go out and hire an FO, but does justify their presence in the plane in the case of time building programs.

In the end it's the FED's and your future employers that you have to convince that it's valid. I'd be more concerned with the latter. I've heard about FO's going into interviews and being asked if it's legal. It's more a question to see if you know your regs and can defend it, than if it's actually legitimate. If they like you they'll accept it. If they don't, they'll use it against you.

I'm sure the same thing could be said about safety pilot time.
 
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