Part 135 First Officer Intern Wanted

[time builder]

Yes, but there may not be a need for the SIC in which case training and a checkride are totally extraneous and only exist to generate justification to charge for the seat.

I'm going to leave the "extraneous" adjective as "subject to opinion." However, you do concede that there is legal justification for the FO, and that's what I'm after.

On a side note, I look at what I've posted previously and would like to give a quick disclaimer. I'm neither management nor a company spokesperson, and am not entitled to speak on behalf of my company, I'm merely stating things as I see them, and giving my opinion.

I have nothing to gain from guys joining these FO programs other than the 5 bucks per flight hour when they fly with me, and the satisfaction of seeing mentoring at work.

 

[time builder]

Seriously, the hypocrisy in this industry is killing me. The fact that my college professor could spend a good chunk of class time preaching to us that we be better do all our certificates and ratings with the college or else we won't have a job when we graduate, is downright wrong. But, seems like everyone else played into it, and thus it was status quo, and it doesn't get any attention. For crying out loud folks, to funnel tens of thousands of dollars into your program with the incentive of working for the people you just paid? This doesn't get the label PFT and the shame that goes with it?

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Someone who knows new pilots considering this route, tell them to RUN (not walk) away.

Do you really think an airline that wants its FO to PAY to fly, would have your best interest in mind?

Do you know that many operators will NOT hire you if they see these operators on your resume?

If you have an extra $13k, invest it in something useful, like a business degree. If you don't have the cash, forget it and save your credit.

What the OP is doing is taking advantage of an opportunity in supply and demand. Sadly, this opportunity reeks of poor ethics, and probably reflects on his treatment of others, work conditions, and maintenance and adherence to regulations.

With tough times comes opportunity. If aviation becomes saturated, find another field. You NEVER have to whore yourself to make a successful career.

CE

 

[spacecadet1]

I think being a prostitute would be more worthwhile. At least you'd be providing a needed service.

 

[avbug]

Seriously, the hypocrisy in this industry is killing me. The fact that my college professor could spend a good chunk of class time preaching to us that we be better do all our certificates and ratings with the college or else we won't have a job when we graduate, is downright wrong. But, seems like everyone else played into it, and thus it was status quo, and it doesn't get any attention. For crying out loud folks, to funnel tens of thousands of dollars into your program with the incentive of working for the people you just paid? This doesn't get the label PFT and the shame that goes with it?

Didn't your high-priced education teach you the difference between college and a job?

Forget the labels. Most blather on about "PFT" and don't have a clue what they're talking about. Set the label aside.

Your college encouraged you to do your training at the school, lied to you, intimidated you, blah, blah, blah. What has this to do with the price of tea in china?

Your employer is making a profit, and requires employees who will function for a wage in order to make that profit. The employer has hired one pilot, then convinced another to pay for the opportunity to work there. This is not "PFT" (pay for training), this is pay-for-work. While encouraging or requiring pilots to pay for their training does meet with some distain, requiring pilots to pay for their jobs, work for free, and even house themselves at the same time is far worse.

You've rabbited on about a legal need for the SIC...show it.

You've rabbited on about mentoring. Is this the case? You've prostituted out another pilot, used and abused him or her, then kicked them to the curb when the money runs out...and feel proud that you've "mentored" them. In fact, the pilot has been willingly raped, being too young, too inexperienced, and too stupid to know otherwise, and you're proud to have helped...and the company things the victim should be grateful for the opportunity. Quite a racket there.

No...not "PFT." That's really a term that the ignorant get excited about and toss around. This is worse, and it lowers the bar across the board. It lowers the bar for employers, who can get a ready supply of inexperienced pilots to come pay to work for them, and it lowers the bar for pilots who find that employers don't pay a fair wage when they can get cheap, even paying, labor.

If you're in a single pilot aircraft (lacking the authority or requirement for a second pilot) and charging others to ride along, and don't have the legal basis for those others to even log the time, let alone be a required crewmember, you're running a scam program and perpetuating a falsehood. It's the big lie, and you're charging others for the privilege of living the big lie. How wonderful that you're proud to be a part of the big lie, isn't it?

Seems you're not only an enemy to the pilot body, but to the industry at large, as well as a moral criminal and an ethical rapist. Your pride in your work speaks volumes about your character and your place in this world. By all means. Keep talking. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper. If you keep up, eventually you'll bury yourself.

 

[svcta]

I'm going to leave the "extraneous" adjective as "subject to opinion." However, you do concede that there is legal justification for the FO, and that's what I'm after.

I have done no such thing! I've been pointing out that with no written, regulatory requirement for the FO there can be no SIC time logged. I don't care how many checkrides you administer or how much training you sell.

This company is selling bridges in New York City for all practical purposes.

 

[time builder]

You've rabbited on about mentoring. Is this the case? You've prostituted out another pilot, used and abused him or her, then kicked them to the curb when the money runs out...and feel proud that you've "mentored" them. In fact, the pilot has been willingly raped, being too young, too inexperienced, and too stupid to know otherwise, and you're proud to have helped...and the company things the victim should be grateful for the opportunity. Quite a racket there.

Actually, every single one of my FOs has found a job flying turbine equipment. The majority within their first 100 hours in the program. You think you know me, think again.

Oh, and I have a bunch of classmates who never found their first flying job. So your description of the "victim" applies so much more to them than to my FOs.

The rest, I mean reallly, I've carried on a debate with svcta for a couple pages, and it's been pretty civilized in my opinion. I respect him for that. I have no problem with people disagreeing with my opinion, but the "shot in the dark" personal slander, really? I expect more from you avbug, you're a smart guy, you don't have to stoop to that level.

 

[time builder]

I have done no such thing! I've been pointing out that with no written, regulatory requirement for the FO there can be no SIC time logged.

Apologies, then, that's what it sounded like to me.

 

[avbug]

Actually, every single one of my FOs has found a job flying turbine equipment. The majority within their first 100 hours in the program.

This is relevant exactly how?

If what you do is wrong, then it's wrong. Period. Justifying it doesn't change that.

What you do, working pilots who pay to do a job instead of getting paid, is wrong. Period.

The ends do not justify the means.

You think you know me, think again.

I know more about you than I wish to know, and it disgusts me. Your pride in what you do tells me all I need to know. Your comments tell the rest. That you're proud of that which should shame you is most telling of all.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with my opinion, but the "shot in the dark" personal slander, really?

There's been no slander here. Your invocation of the word doesn't change that one iota. You've admitted not only to participation with a program in which individuals pay for their jobs, but to your wholehearted support and pride in "mentoring" such a program. You've grandly presented yourself as a participant in a program which deflates and defecates upon the industry as a whole, and which is both reprehensible and morally without a redeeming value. That your rape victims later become gainfully employed doesn't change the fact that your program raped them, any more than a woman who is raped and later marries and becomes a mother is no longer a rape victim. The woman will always be a victim, as will your students, and you're a willing actor in the process.

That any employer considers accepting pay for a working employee to perform his or her job, or accepts anyone who would be so willing is a pathetic commentary on the ethical depravity to which those of hollow character and no soul will allow themselves to go. Your commentary would have us believe you are such a character. That your defense is so thin as to attempt to justify your participation by suggesting your rape victims go on to find a better life does nothing whatsoever to redeem you or the program you support. In fact, all it does is utterly condemn you, as it well should.

 

[T-1GUY]

What a piece of sh*t!!!