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P-56 Busted Airspace

  • Thread starter Thread starter zawillif
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 35

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doh said:
It has been a long time but I think Comair had that exact procedure.
Click to expand...

XJT also, the -7 specifically states to NOT build a build a bearing/distance waypoint and use FMS nav.

As far as "green needles" go, it seems as if intercepting/tracking an RMI bearing pointer is becoming a lost art.
 
dojetdriver said:
XJT also, the -7 specifically states to NOT build a build a bearing/distance waypoint and use FMS nav.

As far as "green needles" go, it seems as if intercepting/tracking an RMI bearing pointer is becoming a lost art.
Click to expand...

Cmr prohibits building departures (also prohibits doing the jfk1 in white).

Unfortunately, that doesn't stop some people from doing it, drives those of us who just want to do it the correct way crazy. I mean it isn't difficult.

It got to the point that they had to issue a memo saying any ASAP reports received due to deviations from such action would not be accepted (viewed it as an intentional deviation).
 
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wmuflyguy said:
Cmr prohibits building departures (also prohibits doing the jfk1 in white).
Click to expand...

I'd have to take a look at that specific one, but I'm pretty sure XJT has the same on other departures.

wmuflyguy said:
Unfortunately, that doesn't stop some people from doing it, drives those of us who just want to do it the correct way crazy. I mean it isn't difficult.

It got to the point that they had to issue a memo saying any ASAP reports received due to deviations from such action would not be accepted (viewed it as an intentional deviation).
Click to expand...

Agree, it's not rocket surgery for Christ's sake. It's pretty cut and dry as to how to do it. And as you said, what in the hell would be the defense in the hearing if god forbid something went wrong?

"I THOUGHT I had a better way even though my company's procedures dictate a specific way to do it".

That's assuming they didn't get show down of course.
 
BoilerUP said:
Guys, DCA ops ain't difficult.

DCA
DCA328/30
AML/BUFFR/other departure gate fix

If VMC, takeoff, at 400' or the departure end of the runway turn left toward the west bank of Roosevelt Island (which keeps you along the west bank of the Potomac), then another left turn immediately passing Rossyln for a few seconds before coming back right to intercept the white-needles 328° radial following the river northwest. This easily keeps you clear of P56A/B *and* avoids the noise-sensitive areas on the Virginia side of the river.

If you start a left turn at 400' immediately after 'gear-up' like some folks do, you will fly right over Rosslyn (if not clipping the NE corner of the Pentagon) and your airline WILL hear about it in the weekly DCA ops meeting, where they list every noise complaint they receive (with animated radar tracks of the offending aircraft). Yes, you in a CRJ passing overhead at 2000' are just as offensive in their eyes as the American MD80 that goes thundering 900' overhead.

Wash Metro Airports Authority wants crews to remain over the river as much as practical for noise abatement and stresses this point to DCA station managers in their meeting. Some pilots say "screw noise complaints, I'm not going to risk my certificates for that" but in VFR conditions it is not even remotely risky in terms of a P56 violation to visually follow the river northwest...but you gotta make that second left turn over Roosevelt Island passing Rosslyn to stay away from the Naval Observatory (P-56B).
Click to expand...

I don't give a damn if my company gets a naughty gram about me flying over Rosslyn. I'll do that every single time to stay clear of P-56. Spank me if you have to. At least I'll still have my certificates and a job.

As far as white needle departures, build the white needle DCA328/30 mile fix and use the VOR RMI indicator as well. Who's to say you aren't navigating with the VOR and backing it up with the FMS. That's called using all available resources.
 
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Cause he's a doosh? All I know is some people are reading way too much in the new section of the CFM, Chp 8 Performance, the engine failures below 1000' and after 1000'. It *clearly* states to follow the published single engine out procedures in the CCI pages if they are published. For DCA, it is clearly published. You must do what the CCI pages tell you. Again, it's really that simple. Some people just enjoy complicating things and making this job a lot harder than it really is.
 
Wow. I lurk around here and haven't even been in an airplane for 3 and 1/2 years. I knew exactly where P56 was, the radial and distance to take it out for. Maybe it was easy to remember for 328 folk, but reading isn't that hard. Trump em'.
 
The most important thing you need to know about DCA....

Don't call ATC "Reagan" ground, tower, approach, etc. I guess that still hits a little too close to home.
 
Im with Flyer1015. It's not rocket science people. A little bit of situational awareness goes a long way. Try looking outside instead of fumbling with the fms, green needles, etc etc...you will be amazed on how simple it really is.
;):beer:
 
Abernathy said:
Anyone have a guess what the new LOFT scenario will be?
Click to expand...

I've already written the new Takeoff Check Below the Line, it's back and it goes like this...

PF - Heading 272º PM - Runway 27 crosschecked...
PF - Stall shaker active PM - stall shaker crosschecked...
PF - Flaps 8º PM - flaps crosschecked...
PF - P-56 Verified PM - P-56 crosschecked...
PF - Takeoff check crosschecked PM - crosschecked


Crap, where am I going to put the altimeters crosschecked line?
 

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