P-56 Busted Airspace

[BigPappa]

Most of these busts seem to have happened while in the turn according to data. Watch the turn radius or stay slow until you're around the corner.

 

[doh]

Pinnacle mandates a green needle takeoff with the DCA VOR Radial preset.

It has been a long time but I think Comair had that exact procedure.

 

[LearLove]

Ask tower.

is this guy for real? I hope that is a joke.

this is turning into another thread like the "autopilot MEL" one. Just shows what happens when you hire the kiddies with 500 tt.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

is this guy for real?

this is turning into another thread like the "autopilot MEL" one. Just shows what happens when you hire the kiddies with 500 tt.

These two incidents had nothing to do with low time.

 

[IslandDriver]

What are these "Green Needles" you speak of?

 

[Metro752]

they are the needles on the PFD that display radio navigation information vs fms "white needles" information in the CRJ

 

[LazyLightnin']

is this guy for real? I hope that is a joke.

this is turning into another thread like the "autopilot MEL" one. Just shows what happens when you hire the kiddies with 500 tt.

Yes. That's the official procedure... To ask the effing tower. You're not very bright are you, ya cheese-eating surrender monkey.

 

[at7driver]

green needles just refers to traditional nav (vor based) while white needles is using the FMS data.. the rj's are not very green needle friendly, they overshoot joining up on loc's etc.. with a strong crosswind.

 

[centralpilot]

...they overshoot joining up on loc's etc.. with a strong crosswind.

Or a light breeze...

 

[ASA_Aviator]

green needles just refers to traditional nav (vor based) while white needles is using the FMS data.. the rj's are not very green needle friendly, they overshoot joining up on loc's etc.. with a strong crosswind.

With the autopilot on, maybe. The green needles are accurate if you handfly, you can join up correctly.

 

[dojetdriver]

It has been a long time but I think Comair had that exact procedure.

XJT also, the -7 specifically states to NOT build a build a bearing/distance waypoint and use FMS nav.

As far as "green needles" go, it seems as if intercepting/tracking an RMI bearing pointer is becoming a lost art.

 

[wmuflyguy]

XJT also, the -7 specifically states to NOT build a build a bearing/distance waypoint and use FMS nav.

As far as "green needles" go, it seems as if intercepting/tracking an RMI bearing pointer is becoming a lost art.

Cmr prohibits building departures (also prohibits doing the jfk1 in white).

Unfortunately, that doesn't stop some people from doing it, drives those of us who just want to do it the correct way crazy. I mean it isn't difficult.

It got to the point that they had to issue a memo saying any ASAP reports received due to deviations from such action would not be accepted (viewed it as an intentional deviation).

 

[greed]

How many of the 4 pilots were senior to me??????

That's the response I was looking for

 

[dojetdriver]

Cmr prohibits building departures (also prohibits doing the jfk1 in white).

I'd have to take a look at that specific one, but I'm pretty sure XJT has the same on other departures.

Unfortunately, that doesn't stop some people from doing it, drives those of us who just want to do it the correct way crazy. I mean it isn't difficult.

It got to the point that they had to issue a memo saying any ASAP reports received due to deviations from such action would not be accepted (viewed it as an intentional deviation).

Agree, it's not rocket surgery for Christ's sake. It's pretty cut and dry as to how to do it. And as you said, what in the hell would be the defense in the hearing if god forbid something went wrong?

"I THOUGHT I had a better way even though my company's procedures dictate a specific way to do it".

That's assuming they didn't get show down of course.

 

[MusicMan]

Guys, DCA ops ain't difficult.

DCA
DCA328/30
AML/BUFFR/other departure gate fix

If VMC, takeoff, at 400' or the departure end of the runway turn left toward the west bank of Roosevelt Island (which keeps you along the west bank of the Potomac), then another left turn immediately passing Rossyln for a few seconds before coming back right to intercept the white-needles 328° radial following the river northwest. This easily keeps you clear of P56A/B *and* avoids the noise-sensitive areas on the Virginia side of the river.

If you start a left turn at 400' immediately after 'gear-up' like some folks do, you will fly right over Rosslyn (if not clipping the NE corner of the Pentagon) and your airline WILL hear about it in the weekly DCA ops meeting, where they list every noise complaint they receive (with animated radar tracks of the offending aircraft). Yes, you in a CRJ passing overhead at 2000' are just as offensive in their eyes as the American MD80 that goes thundering 900' overhead.

Wash Metro Airports Authority wants crews to remain over the river as much as practical for noise abatement and stresses this point to DCA station managers in their meeting. Some pilots say "screw noise complaints, I'm not going to risk my certificates for that" but in VFR conditions it is not even remotely risky in terms of a P56 violation to visually follow the river northwest...but you gotta make that second left turn over Roosevelt Island passing Rosslyn to stay away from the Naval Observatory (P-56B).

I don't give a damn if my company gets a naughty gram about me flying over Rosslyn. I'll do that every single time to stay clear of P-56. Spank me if you have to. At least I'll still have my certificates and a job.

As far as white needle departures, build the white needle DCA328/30 mile fix and use the VOR RMI indicator as well. Who's to say you aren't navigating with the VOR and backing it up with the FMS. That's called using all available resources.