OVER 60 Foreign Pilots to fly as PIC in USA

[Pistlpetet]

Ok, it is still in a quagmire of indecision.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Let's Talk Money

IT IS A GREAT FINANCIAL ADVANTAGE TO BE ABLE TO FLY TO AGE 65 FOR TOTAL DOLLARS EARNED AND FOR RETIREMENT.

JUST LOOK AT THE NUMBERS:


Here is how much more a person would have by working to age-60 or by working 5 extra years to age-65.

Using an example of a 40-year old new hire F/O who earns 60K and will be a captain in 5 years. Captains earn 100K at this generic airline.

By retiring at age-60 that pilot will have a career earnings of $1,800,000.

If he puts 10% of what he earns in a 401k and gets a 10% return on investment at age-60 he will have $475,513. That is all he will have to last 20 years if he dies at 80. This is no where near enough money.



Using the same 40-year old but by delaying his promotion by 5 years if age-65 (wouldn'd really be 5 years because some pilots will still leave early) becomes law for pilots, that pilot would have a career earnings of $2,100,000

If he puts 10% of what he earns in a 401k and gets a 10% return on investment. At age-65 he will have $749,324 to last that 15 years. Better but still not good enough money.



Now if the pilot was 30-years old when he started then his career earning by retiring at age-60 would be $2,800,000 and his 401k would be $1,233,533. Better but still not good enough.

Now if that 30-year old worked until he was 65 his career earnings would be $3,100,000 and his 401k would be $1,943,725 to last just 15 years. This is enough to retire.



Do you want to retire poor or with enough money. Anyone can clearly see that age-65 and starting to put money away at age-30 is the answer.


Of course one divorce with children will put even the best case into poverty.

Also, this model assumes a 10% return on investment. That number may really be 5% or less which make it even more important to work to age-65.

Questions/comments…..
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[Pistlpetet]

Now if the pilot was 30-years old when he started then his career earning by retiring at age-60 would be $2,800,000 and his 401k would be $1,233,533. Better but still not good enough.

If you think that making 4 million dollars is not enough money to retire on, then there probably has been something wrong with your "Money Attitude" and spending through out your life, and 5 extra years is not going to help you out.

 

[TurboS7]

American pilots over 60 will be able to drive the flight crews of all the ICAO countries back and fourth to the airport. They can still hit on the foreign FA's and not have to worry about sexual harassment.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

If you think that making 4 million dollars is not enough money to retire on, then there probably has been something wrong with your "Money Attitude" and spending through out your life, and 5 extra years is not going to help you out.

The 4 million represents a lifetime earnings. That looks like a lot of money but over 30 years and really 50 years if you include 20 years of retirement it's not enough. And even that amount was based on a very optimistic 10% ROI. With a 5% ROI which is still good on the long term and more realistic, the same 4 million would only be 2.8 million over the 50 years, retiring with a 401k of 785K. My fellow board members this is just not enough money.

As was pointed out earlier, age 60 pilots will have to get a job driving the over age 60 foreign pilots to the airport.

 

[Hamburger]

Stay out of my pockets

Unless you refused to take a new hire or upgrade class date as a Moral stand against the Age 60 rule, you are a hypocrite. Plain and simple. You wouldn't be where you are if it wasn't for retirements. You can boo hoo about the industry all day long, but when you had the chance to put your money where your mouth is, you put the money in your pocket.

You knew the rules when you started. If you wanted to work past 60, you should've gotten a job in Canada. You chose to stay here, deal with it.

One thing you forgot in your calculations, the 30-year old pilot that started his career and was furloughed and won't get back if baby-boomers who severely outnumber his generation get an extra five years.

At least you're man enough to admit that you want my money to support your ex-wife instead of claiming its all about age discrimination.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Unless you refused to take a new hire or upgrade class date as a Moral stand against the Age 60 rule, you are a hypocrite. Plain and simple. You wouldn't be where you are if it wasn't for retirements. You can boo hoo about the industry all day long, but when you had the chance to put your money where your mouth is, you put the money in your pocket.

You knew the rules when you started. If you wanted to work past 60, you should've gotten a job in Canada. You chose to stay here, deal with it.

One thing you forgot in your calculations, the 30-year old pilot that started his career and was furloughed and won't get back if baby-boomers who severely outnumber his generation get an extra five years.

At least you're man enough to admit that you want my money to support your ex-wife instead of claiming its all about age discrimination.

The above post is total crap...

Quote by Hamburger:
Unless you refused to take a new hire or upgrade class date as a Moral stand against the Age 60 rule, you are a hypocrite. Plain and simple. You wouldn't be where you are if it wasn't for retirements. You can boo hoo about the industry all day long, but when you had the chance to put your money where your mouth is, you put the money in your pocket.

There is no hypocrisy here. Take the first interview, class date, promotion and retire when you have enough cash. That's called life. Hit the EASY button.

Quote by Hamburger:
You knew the rules when you started. If you wanted to work past 60, you should've gotten a job in Canada. You chose to stay here, deal with it.

This is ridiculous. The rules included a defined benefit program. Now there is none. Plus, Canadians were not allowed to fly in the USA at that time. Also, Canada doesn't hire Americans.

Quote by Hamburger:
One thing you forgot in your calculations, the 30-year old pilot that started his career and was furloughed and won't get back if baby-boomers who severely outnumber his generation get an extra five years.

Mathematically all furloughees will be recalled. It may be later but they will be able to work longer. Their total earning will be greater by the ability to work longer, until 65.

Quote by Hamburger:
At least you're man enough to admit that you want my money to support your ex-wife instead of claiming its all about age discrimination

Personally I have just one wife by good luck. But others may have bad luck here through no fault of their own. Or they may have financial problems from sick children or other tragedies. Shouldn't they have a right to earn a living in their trade? Or do you advocate that such people should just drive the airport limo so a young person can get to his dream job sooner? And haul the bags for those pilots like you and the Canadians, the Chinese and others.

Hamburger, I mean no disrespect, but your thoughts are very short sighted.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Age 60 quote:

If the law is to deny a person employment, there must be a rational, solid, scientific body of evidence in support of the denial such that the denial is based on bona fide occupational qualifications. In fact, there is no such body of evidence to deny a pilot employment past age 60.

 

[Metro752]

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You know I take your point about the retirement age but that above comment makes you look like a complete jerk off.

but its true you kiwi wannabe

 

[skengdon]

On March 11, 2006, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) met and in a nearly unanimous vote, decided to increase the airline pilot retirement age for ICAO member nations’ pilots from age-60 to age-65.

What that means is this: Effective November 23, 2006, the United States will be legally required to respect the new age-65 limitation and allow all foreign airline pilots from any member nation to operate in our airspace. Pilots over age-60 from ICAO member nations will be able to fly to and from all of our airports. Senior pilots from Canada, Mexico, China, Japan, Korea, Iran, Syria, Israel, Jordan, Pakistan, India, Brazil and all European nations except France (France requires all workers to retire at 60), will have a right by United States law to fly into and throughout the United States, but US citizens who are the same age will not be able to fly at all. Instead of working for a living at their professions, our pilots that turn age-60 and are employed by U.S. airlines such as Southwest, Jet Blue, US Air, United, Delta, American and Northwest will all be grounded by FAA regulation. Pilots from all other countries will have a right to make a living flying to and from American airports but American pilots will have no such right. American pilots who are over age-60, no matter that they may be in excellent health, will instead eventually become a burden on the government guaranteed and financially strapped PBGC as well as the Social Security system when they turn 62. This is all the result of a nearly 50-year old FAA regulation that hasn't keep pace with the rest of the world. Even though our pilots are just as healthy, better trained and more experienced than any foreign pilot flying into this country, this outdated regulation still applies? Why should foreign pilots be allowed to fly into American airports to earn their livings when an American taxpaying family man can not do the same thing? No matter the politics, the principals of equal rights and laws against discrimination should apply here, especially for American’s over foreign workers that pay no U.S. taxes.

The airline pilots who are turning age-60 today and in the next few years are mostly former military veterans, many of whom flew combat missions over Vietnam in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s, some even fought in Desert Storm. That means that many of our most respected citizens, the military veterans who have fought for our country are being grounded every day by bureaucracy in government combined with a labor issue. The time for change on the age-60 rule is long overdue.

i understand the rule bout if your dual citizenship with the US and somewhere else..what happens then?

 

[The Prussian]

Unless you refused to take a new hire or upgrade class date as a Moral stand against the Age 60 rule, you are a hypocrite. Plain and simple.

To follow your line of reasoning (??!!), all those who want to retire before 60 are hypocrites then, too....right???

Or,...(!)...we just won't count them as hypocrites because those guys/gals who want to retire early will quicken my goals of a faster upgrade!!!??

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

i understand the rule bout if your dual citizenship with the US and somewhere else..what happens then?

The rule really has nothing to do with citizenship. If you hold a foreign pilot certificate and fly an airplane registered in that country then the certification rules of that country apply as long as that country's rules are within the ICAO age and certification standards. So if you hold a Canadian pilot certificate and fly a Canadian registered airplane then you can fly in the USA or anywhere else in the world to age 65 as an airline captain.

 

[Lead Sled]

The United States has more ICAO exceptions than any other member state. Something tells me there may be yet another exemption.

'Sled

 

[jobear]

Move your butt outta my seat pappy your slowing the gravy train down..

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Move your butt outta my seat pappy your slowing the gravy train down..

I like the gravy. Don't you? Is the law just so younger pilots can be promoted?